Plan for the Future

David Martin: This is the good government show.

Donna Dupont: So it’s a different way of working. Instead of working in silos, we have to move towards more of an ecosystem type of approach, especially when capacity is limited. And that could mean working with other partners outside of government.

There are people that are very attached to the old system. It works for them. You know, they don’t want they fear change. They don’t like anything new. They don’t know they still have the same security, a new model. Maybe their job might change. So change is very uncomfortable. You have to help people through that change process.

If we can anticipate and make sense of a shifting landscape, we can make better decisions for the future. And perhaps we don’t have to respond to as many crisis. Maybe we can be positioned in a better place for society.

David Martin: In the future. We’re all going to live in it. The question is, how do you plan for it? Welcome to the Good Government show, I’m Dave Martin. First, help us share the message of good government by liking us and sharing us where we are on Facebook, X, YouTube, Instagram and Blue Sky. Please share our show with their friends or any of us where you’re listening, and join our good Government show community.

Check out our website for the link. On today’s episode we’re going to talk about the future. My guest is Donna DuPont. She’s a futurist and I’m sorry, no crystal ball, no prediction. So put all those betting slips away. But what she does is help governments plan for the future. When we hear about governments hiring an outside consultant, oftentimes the reaction is, well, why are we spending all this money to hire someone to do the job our leaders are supposed to do?

Donna DuPont will explain the best consultants were with their government partners, bringing outside expertise and an outsider viewpoint to help governments do better. That can mean a long term future strategy or setting milestones that are flexible. And being from Canada, we discuss the differences between working with American governments and Canadian governments. So let’s head to the Great White North and hear from futurist John DuPont.

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Welcome to the Good Government Show. I’m happy to have with me Donna DuPont of Purple Compass. And from Canada, welcome to the Good Government Show. Happy to have you.

Donna Dupont: Thank you, David, for the invitation.

David Martin: Well, well you’re welcome. Now you are in Canada. How are things going in Canada? We’re doing we’re recording this in the summer. We’re having a heatwave. Is Canada having a heatwave?

Donna Dupont: Yes we are. I’m in Montreal, Canada. Last couple days, the heat index has been very high with the humidity and, you know, we have warnings.

David Martin: Canadians must be freaking out about really, really hot weather.

Donna Dupont: We are. And we have wildfire season. Right? So it’s, you know, we have to think about that in the north and, and our response agencies, in addition to just the heat and dealing with that and opening up cooling centers and, and just keeping people safe in times of extreme heat.

David Martin: So we talked a little bit before we, you know, turn the microphones on. And the first thing I need you to do is explain to me what you are. Apparently you are a futurist. What is a futurist?

Donna Dupont: Oh, yes. Okay. So I typically use the title Foresight and design strategist, but I am a futurist in the sense that I’m part of the community of professional futurists. And so what I do is I help organizations, as government and businesses plan for a very complex and uncertain future.

David Martin: How do you know the future?

Donna Dupont: Well, we don’t predict the future. So it’s all about understanding the changing landscape of what’s happening and being able to, build your anticipatory and adaptive leadership capabilities. So it’s about not predicting the future. That’s an old type of model of, you know, we predict, we forecast, and then we act. This is more about understanding that there are big global drivers of change that are happening that are impacting every industry around the world.

And it’s understood banding that and making sense of that and then relating it back to your organization and how your organization may need to adapt. Moving forward and make new decisions, for the future.

David Martin: So this is the good government show. So we talk about people who are working in government, which you do. How is government at adapting to the future and planning for the future?

Donna Dupont: It’s it’s not easy. You know, it’s not easy, not just for government, for organizations across the board. This type of, disruptive change that we’re seeing around the world is, is very difficult for organizations that are very management focused, where they like predictability, they like to plan, they like they’re preparing for the next quarter. This type of disruptive thinking is is really impacting how people do business and and what that could look like moving into the future.

And that disruption is creating a lot of anxiety.

David Martin: One of the things I know that governments, have a hard time doing and I’ve talked to a few government leaders who have come in and said, here’s what we did. We made it. We made a five year plan. We made a ten year plan. We made a 20 year plan. You know, we never done that before.

How vital is that?

Donna Dupont: Well, it’s important to have a future forward vision, right? And, you know, ideally, what you want is you want some sort of vision to pull you forward. That’s aspirational. Maybe it’s, it’s based on values, principles that we need to shape. But you do need to have a pathway to reach that vision. And that could look like, you know, two, three, five, ten year plans as stepping stones to achieve that.

But recognize that when you have those five year plans, the planning is just a starting point. You need to understand the context that’s changing on a dynamic basis, and that you might not need to pivot some of those ideas. Based on what’s happening, some of them might need to defer, some might need to be reexamined, some might need to be pushed forward.

So you need to have this agility of thinking as you’re moving forward with your plans.

David Martin: And how hard is that to explain to city planners, to city mayors, to county commissioners, to make sure that.

Donna Dupont: They’re, you know, it’s not easy because a lot of us want certainty. We want certainty. We want to know, okay, this is what we’re doing. This is how long it’s going to take. This is how much it’s going to cost, and this is when it’s going to be done. And and so that that need for certainty, it’s important to have that structure.

But you need to then start to think how could things potentially be disrupted. You know, could there be an issue with the supply chain impact. You know, things that we need, resources we need to complete this project. Could there be a workforce disruption? Could there be a technology disruption. So you need to think a little broader in terms of what that could look like and start to think about how if that were to happen, how you may need to pivot.

Right. So it’s not an easy it’s a different type of thinking competency for a very complex and uncertain world. And that’s that’s what we need to cultivate in today’s society.

David Martin: And do you plan for things like a pandemic or a worldwide pandemic? You know, I’m suppose, in Florida, you probably plan for, you know, if average two hurricanes in their city a year, then you plan for two. Or do you plan for three? You know, if you’re in California, do you plan for wildfires? You said you were in Canada in this wildfire season.

If you typically have two, do you plan for three? How does that process work?

Donna Dupont: Well, it depends on the context. Right. So there are agencies emergency management agencies that they’re tasks for doing this type of preparedness planning for emergencies however right. These emergencies are getting more complex. And they’re not just more frequent.

David Martin: Right? I mean you were getting like 50 year. We’re getting like 50 year storms every 20 years now, right?

Donna Dupont: Absolutely, absolutely. So you need to have, in a sense, right, from a performance standpoint, from an organization’s perspective, how is that environment changing? Is it is are we seeing more frequency? Are we seeing more severity? Are we seeing a mix? Hazards potentially of two different hazards coming together to create a different level of vulnerability and risk. So these are some of the thinking that you need to to undertake.

Right. But and then you need to think about okay, what’s our capacity to be able to manage that. And where could we. Where are the limits of that capacity. And then how do we collaborate in different ways to bolster our capacity. Or maybe we need to think about different ways of delivering this service. Moving into the future, because a model we have today is not sustainable.

If if, you know, if situations were to really escalate. So this is the type of disruptive, innovative type thinking that’s necessary, in today’s world. And it’s hard because a lot of us are in that very status quo, business as usual mindset. And it’s not that that is invaluable. It is. We need that. But we need to almost have, an ambidextrous view towards the future where we have a management mindset and we have a disruptive, innovative mindset, and both of them need to align up at the leadership level in order to make good decisions today and for the future.

David Martin: So let’s just look a little bit at, at the world. You know, we have climate change. That’s, that’s, you know, happening that is affecting lots of environmental issues and weather and storms, etc. you have, I’ll use your word, you have a disrupter, in Washington DC, that is affecting, you know, things that are happening around the world.

How do you incorporate those two things into local planning?

Donna Dupont: So it’s it’s interesting because it’s not done in isolation. It’s it’s done with usually teams. Right? You’re bringing different people together and you need to, scope in what the challenge is that you’re looking at. So if we’re looking at environmental challenges, climate change and risk for local planning, you need to think about some of these broader geopolitical type of shifts and, and policies.

Right. And what that could mean right downstream in terms of cascading consequences to that and your ability to respond. Right. So this type of work is done usually, not with one person trying to do all the research, but it’s done with a team. They have to.

David Martin: Accept that their, their cities where there are small cities that have one person, you know, like you are the resiliency officer, you’re ed, you’re the you’re the, you know, you have a small emergency planning team or are some places don’t have that. You know what? What do you tell them?

Donna Dupont: Well, it’s about how you can work with others across who are doing similar type of activities so that you can bring your expertise together, but also, combined resources. So it’s a different way of working. Instead of working in silos, we have to move towards more of an ecosystem type of approach, especially when capacity is limited. And that could mean working with other partners outside of government.

So private sector citizen groups, nonprofits, there are different ways to look at it from an ecosystem perspective. Instead of just staying in our silos because we’re all in our silos. But we’re talking about really complex, interdependent challenges that need thinking, cross thinking, and diversity of thinking in order to really address these issues.

David Martin: So let’s talk a little bit about what you just brought up, which is, you know, government is hiring outside consultants a lot of people here, oh, an outside consultant, it’s going to cost more money. Why do we need an outside consultant to do that? We have our own department that handles that. Why spend the money to hire an outside consultant?

What does an outside consultant bring to a to a city or to a government that they can’t handle themselves?

Donna Dupont: Well, it depends on what type of service that you’re looking for, right? So if you are looking for a type of service, right. So say for site design, future planning and you need someone to help you with complexity, navigate the complexity, uncertainty, creating a safe space for dialog, analyzing and making sense of all of this information to help inform strategy and policy.

If you have that capability internally and you have the capacity to do it, fantastic. Leverage it. But not everyone has that. So you need to think about when you’re looking for consultants. What is it I need this what type of service do I need? How is this going to help the type of work that I’m doing or to advance decision making for strategy, for investment, for policy?

Because the thing is that, yes, you can give, you know, units, you know, this type of function and role, but do they have the experience to do it right. So some do. Some governments around the world have been actively building this foundation and integrating foresight and futures thinking into their work so they’re able to manage that internally because they found a model that works for them.

But if you don’t have that, then you can look to outside consultants to help you. But you want to be very clear about why, what the role is and how that knowledge can be used to really advance action. Right. You don’t want knowledge, it’s just sitting in a report on a shelf you really want, right?

David Martin: You want to take it and put it into action. Which goes to my next question. You know how do you justify spending the money for an outside consultant when you know, city budgets, county budgets, state budgets are tight and, you know, they’re especially when they’re looking at cut, cut, cut. You know, how do you how do you how do you justify spending the money when you, you know, are outside of your comfort zone or someone looks at, at a city budget and sees a line item and it’s, you know, a lot of money for someone to come in and tell them how to do it.

Donna Dupont: Yeah. So you need to really create a proactive business case. And so you need to know why you’re doing this. What is the risk of inaction and the consequences of no action. Right. Or if no one’s doing this or it’s or it’s not done well, right or in time and especially in emergency context. Right. The the consequences can be severe at the community level, at the civilian level.

And it can cost a lot of money to react and respond in real time. To deploy emergency resources is expensive. And and if people are losing their homes, if they’re, you know, not prepared, if they have to be, evacuated, relocated, maybe it takes years to move back to their community. Maybe they don’t have insurance, maybe they can’t access health services.

So there’s a lot of cascading risks. And so we don’t think about the cost of inaction. Right. We only think about, oh, maybe that won’t happen. So, you know, we we have to really check our assumptions about the future and, and do that proactive business case of, yes, we need this information because we need to make good decisions for the future.

And and if we choose not to, we can do that too. But we have to take accountability for our choices of of deciding not to explore that and and risking the consequences of that inaction and the costs. There will be downstream costs associated with that.

David Martin: What do governments get wrong when they hire outside consultants?

Donna Dupont: What they get wrong is they don’t look for consultants. They can work with that they can collaborate with. I think there needs to be a new relationship. The way government works with consultants, a lot of times consultants are brought in and everything is outsourced to them and they’re doing it in isolation. And then they present back a report.

And government can’t understand, the language, what’s in there? It doesn’t necessarily resonate with their models or how they process information or how they move forward. And so that disconnect can be a real big missed opportunity. So what I do is I work with a lot of my clients in government, and we make sure that as they’re involved in the process, in the terms of the project management side, so they understand the layers, what’s happening, they’re able to ask really good questions and making sure that each stage of the process that we’re collecting really valuable insights and how we’re going to translate that knowledge into action.

And so that is a different way, different model.

David Martin: So the difference what I think our understanding to say is there they go about it in two ways. The wrong way is to go here’s our problem. Tell us how to fix it. Let us know when you’ve got an answer, as opposed to let’s roll up our sleeves together and talk this whole process through so we can. So when we come to a conclusion, we both reach the same conclusion.

Donna Dupont: Absolutely. Or when you have the there’s an understanding of that information and that you can say, okay, we’ve got the report. Now we’re going to do our internal part where we need to process information and move it up to see what we can take action on. And that’s an internal government decision. But it’s so important to have that kind of collaboration.

And it’s so it’s a different type of relationship for a complex system.

David Martin: All right. So give me your your your best short elevator pitch for why a government should hire a futurist to work on their future plans.

Donna Dupont: Well, I think that pitching is not easy for me. So I’m a more expression kind of person. But this is what I’m going to tell you that right now. There is a lot of distrust around the world, not just with government, but institutions globally. Yes. And people don’t feel heard. They don’t feel seen. They don’t feel like their needs are being addressed.

And there’s a big opportunity here for government and business to rethink how they are moving into the future, how they are, how they are governing. You know, their space in the sense that how they collaborating with civil society, how they’re listening to the issues and how they’re working to address them. Right, moving into the future. And and so I believe that governments, you know, need to play a big role in bridging this type of communication with communities and, and a different way of governance.

So we talk about as anticipatory governance in the future and and it’s a it’s a type of future ready leadership that is understanding what’s changing, what’s what’s moving, and is open to being very agile and adaptive and responding to the needs as they go forward, as opposed to, being kind of caught in an old model and being disconnected from the reality that a lot of people are experiencing.

David Martin: And what you’re talking about, though, is not easy. It’s it’s quite hard. And especially when you’re, perhaps a smaller, city or a county or a more rural or poorer city or a county, you know, they’re they’re sort of jumping from, you know, like keeping the lights on. And you’re talking about a, you know, a ten year plan considering, you know, world wide global geo geo global conflict.

David Martin: How do you explain that to a, to a, you know, to a smaller city or county, you know, like I described, you know, working with someone like yourself to come up with a plan?

Donna Dupont: Well, it’s a it’s a paradigm shift. So the, the world is changing, right? So if you’re not thinking about those changes that are happening, like let’s take technology for example, that’s rapidly changing. And and so as government, if you are not part of that conversation you’re left behind. Right? It is a paradigm shift. It’s very difficult. And it’s very difficult at the program level or sometimes at the at the junior policy level.

It has to be it has to be across entire organization, especially at the leadership level, where they have to be really invested in the future and about wanting to respond to the needs, that are emerging and, and want to ensure that they’re able to continue to deliver good services. Right. Sure. And so that is it’s a paradigm shift.

It’s a complete shift in thinking. And it it doesn’t happen overnight. It takes strong leadership. It takes strong governance. And it takes a commitment to say, okay, we’re not going to disrupt and change everything overnight. But we know that how we’re performing right now is under a lot of stress, and we need to start to think about how we may need to adapt, and we need to create space to have these type of structured, future facing conversations so that we can come up with new ideas and new ways.

And it doesn’t have to look like a ten year plan. It can be a ten year vision with some milestones. Recognizing the plan is a starting point. You are going to adapt in real time any time you implement.

David Martin: This is true for every sized city, every size county, right?

Donna Dupont: Absolutely, absolutely. Even the federal government. I work a lot with several departments in Canada and globally. And and they also deal with the same challenge. Right? Absolutely. It’s not easy. It’s a mindset shift first around new values, new principles for the future, new goals. And then you have to build the systems that align with that.

David Martin: Okay.

Donna Dupont: And no swaps need you.

David Martin: You’re in Canada. In Montreal you said you have customers, clients that you’ve worked with in both the U.S. and Canada. What’s the biggest difference between working with, American governments and Canadian governments?

Donna Dupont: You know, it’s a hard that is very, as a Canadian, I, I, work mostly with Canadian government governments and international governments. Yeah. U.S. governments, not as much, sometimes collaborating in certain pieces of work. But, it’s a little different in terms of the requirements as a Canadian to work in the U.S.

David Martin: Now. But just like the mindset, the attitude, the.

Donna Dupont: Mindset.

David Martin: You know, the way that that that the Americans go about things and the way that Canadians go about things is it different or remarkably different or just, you know, kind of the same?

Donna Dupont: You know what? I’m it’s hard to say, to be honest, because, yeah, I think governments, and I work a lot with defense and security organizations. They assume they know what the problem is.

David Martin: Okay?

Donna Dupont: They already know what the problem is. They already have the solution. Right. And and with a complex system that is very interdependent and very, and very dynamic, it you it’s important to take a step back and examine, do we really know what the problem is here, or is the problem? Are we looking at it from an expanded perspective, more of a holistic systems viewpoint as opposed to very specific small part of the system?

So that is that’s a common issue that I see across a lot of not just governments but business organizations. They are thinking very operational, very, very short term, very narrow focus. And they’re not seeing the bigger picture. There’s a lot of blind spots okay. And and so yeah. So there are then when disruption happens, they’re, they’re anxious because they never anticipated it.

They didn’t see it coming. They didn’t think about it. They thought oh that’s never going to happen. Right. And they never saw it to challenge their assumptions.

David Martin: Well yeah. But let’s get back to, to what I’m trying to get at is is there a difference between the way you know, US government think and the way Canadian governments think when you you know, when you start off or our governments are all governments.

Donna Dupont: I guess at the political level, you know, I, I think there is a difference at the political level, but it depends on who’s in power. Yeah, right. Different personalities. And I think different personalities bring in a different style of leadership. And and so you see yeah, you’ll see that ripple effect of that for sure.

David Martin: But you don’t get a job and go, oh no, I have to work with the Americans again.

Donna Dupont: I love working with Americans, and I have worked on a few different collaborative projects with us, with the US, and it’s been a really great experience because you get to hear it from, you know, a perspective from a different viewpoint.

David Martin: Right? And it’s a it is it is it remarkably different? Like, do you start off from a different place with, you know, it’s two different kinds of governments. You know, the Canadian government, the U.S. government, you start from a different place.

Donna Dupont: I think sometimes you do, depending on the context. So from an emergency management perspective, I do see a big difference.

David Martin: What is.

Donna Dupont: That with? Well, I think what I’ve seen in my experience. And so this is not some deep study, but just based on that personal experience, is that, you know, in the U.S. there’s a different structure with emergency management. You, you know, you have CMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency that has been going through a lot of disruption and change.

Right? So we have this similar kind of process where we have different levels, but we don’t we have a lot of, local and provincial type of focus and emergency management. We do have a federal agency, Public Safety Canada, but it’s a different type of role and structure in terms of relationships. Right. So I guess to say that it’s all very context specific in terms of what we’re talking about.

Right. It’s a really hard question to answer because yes, it really is like it depends on what we’re talking about. The topic, the politics of the day, what’s happening, how empowering.

David Martin: I was just trying to get an overall feel. If there’s a big difference between the US and Canada.

Donna Dupont: I think right now there is. Yeah, for sure. On the geopolitical side, yes. In terms of tone and political stance and, outlook, on, you know, economic outlooks, collaboration output looks it’s a very different tone that’s happening, that’s coming from different political ideologies and different political, personalities. So I think that that does have a ripple effect across the board.

David Martin: Okay. So we’re going to get to your your true thoughts on government in just a moment.

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I want to ask you a few questions that I ask lots of government leaders. Interesting perspective from you as you’re not in government anymore, although you used to be defined good government. What is it?

Donna Dupont: A good government is one that has strong governance structures so that they have, they got good awareness, they’re anticipatory. Right. So they, they understand what’s changing, what’s happening. They are able to operate effectively today. And if they’re not operate effectively, they’re able to problem solve to understand where that the breakdowns are happening and how they can improve, that they are agile, they are anticipating change, and they are agile enough to know that we need to shift.

We can’t just stay with status quo. We need to make some changes moving forward. And then they can take action, adapt. And there’s transparency and there’s accountability built in.

David Martin: Piece of cake. All those things are simple. No.

Donna Dupont: It’s not easy. It is not easy. But it comes from principles of how you operate within a system. I mean, I, I when I worked in government, I led multi-million dollar projects where I did have to implement something new and and it was in the health portfolio and it was a good news type of project. But I was pushing against the current system.

And there are people that are very attached to the old system. It works for them. You know, they don’t want they fear change, they don’t like anything new. They don’t know they still have the same security, a new model. Maybe their job might change. So change is very uncomfortable. You have to help people through that change process. And to find out how if they’re, if their job is being changed, what that change is and how they will be supported into a new role moving into the future.

So there’s a reskilling and there’s a re, almost like a mindset shifts. It sets shift to that needs to happen in terms of being more agile and adaptive in a very complex, dynamic, volatile world. Right.

David Martin: How do you explain to citizens who don’t like the change they’re seeing? Because no one likes change, that it’s good for them. And if people are frustrated by what they’re seeing, you know, what should they do.

Donna Dupont: For citizens that are very uncomfortable with change? I would say instead of staying in the background, right. And just being a critic, I would say get involved. If there is something that you are passionate about, get involved and be part of the dialog. Find a way to to be part of that, that process. Because a lot of times, you know, change will happen.

And, and, you know, sometimes people aren’t involved. Citizens are involved in the way they should be in these types of decisions. Right? So I would say get involved. Don’t don’t be a bystander. And if it’s important to you, you know, find a way to, to have your voice heard, see where you can make an impact.

David Martin: What attracted you to go into, working in government and continues to this day, although in a different role.

Donna Dupont: So I came from the health care sector. I worked as a respiratory therapist for many years in hospital critical care and trauma. The SARS crisis was a big turning point for me professionally. I was studying public policy at the time because I really wanted to improve the future. I really wanted to improve health system delivery in the future.

And then I moved into government and I had a very I had a 12 year, you know, career in government, worked in a variety of different departments and with different leaders who were championing change. And it was not easy. Those projects needed a lot of commitment, right? From the politicians, from, the senior leaderships, from the staff, a lot of commitment.

But I was very fortunate because I got to see what that look like and the challenges behind the scene and how you have to be persistent and you have to really have strong clarity on what are the principles, values you’re trying to shape and why you’re doing it. Because, you know, once you you will hit resistance 100%, but you need to be able to know how to move around those, those those issues to still move forward in that sort of future direction.

Right. So the vision has to be compelling, has to be strong enough and have to have good leadership. And so for me, I when I moved over into health emergency management, this is where I start to think even more about the future, about all of the challenges, all of the crisis, all of the needs, at the local level.

And if we can anticipate in and make sense of a shifting landscape, we can make better decisions for the future. And perhaps we don’t have to respond to as many crisis. Maybe we can be positioned in a better place for society. That was my, And for me, it’s been a constant journey of learning to work with clients and governments and and private sector, and helping them to build these leadership skills for the future.

David Martin: So 12 years in government and now you continue working with government as an outside consultant. What would you like people to know about government? You know, especially from your perspective as someone who helps government plan for the future, what would you like people to know about that?

Donna Dupont: There’s a lot of people working in government that are really that are really passionate about what they do, and they want to create a better future that they want to help. They went into government with the, with the goal and the objective of making a difference of helping people, of, of creating a better society. And, and sometimes, you know, when the reality of working in structures like that, there’s a lot of resistance, there’s a lot of politics, there’s a lot of challenges.

It can be really difficult, you know. And so I feel I still work with people who are champion change. And those are the ones that I love working with the most because they they are really committed to the process and they’re prepared for the challenges, and it doesn’t deter them. It just helps them to kind of take a step back and figure out how they’re going to still push forward.

So. So there are a lot of people that are passionate that love what they do. They want to serve there. There’s, you know, they they want to make a difference. It’s it’s and I was one of those people and I still am to this day.

David Martin: Okay. So here’s a question I usually ask mayors about their city. And it gives them a chance to talk a little bit about their city. But there’s second Canadian we’ve ever had on the show. We had a mayor from Canada on. Yes. So welcome. And the question I ask them, and you’re in Montreal, I will ask you this.

I have been to Montreal, but it’s been a long, long, long time. If I’m coming to Montreal, what’s the one thing I must try? What’s the dish of Montreal?

Donna Dupont: Oh, oh, oh, if you’re coming to Montreal. Yes. You have to try Putin.

David Martin: Well, of course.

Donna Dupont: Of course, but not like there’s many different types of Putin. Right? So, you know, it’s like the fries with the gravy and the cheese curds, but you can get like variations of Putin, that, that are quite delicious.

David Martin: What’s your favorite, what’s your favorite variation that.

Donna Dupont: Oh I had this buffalo chicken okay. And Tusk is very different. Very different. Also another thing that I’ve learned because I just moved to Montreal a year ago. So Montreal is new for me. Okay. But what I learned is that there’s a really, amazing, community of different people, from Lebanon, from Syria, from the Middle East, and have this incredible food that you can get such tasty, tasty Moroccan dishes, you know, Middle Eastern type dishes here.

And it’s the flavors are spectacular. And, Yeah. And so I enjoy that, but I also what I enjoy about Montreal the most is, it’s a little bit different. It’s got a European charm, Scott, that people love. The summer. They go outside, they picnic in the park, they bring their wine, and they just enjoy life because it’s very cold here in the winter.

So you step inside.

David Martin: So you get your, get your, your shorts everyday when you can.

Donna Dupont: Absolutely.

David Martin: So this is the good government show. We always bring it back to good government. You’ve been working with government for a long time. Tell me about a project that you were involved in that you’re really proud of. That’s really a nice showcase for good government.

Donna Dupont: One of the projects I am really proud of is a project I did in collaboration with the Archipelago of Design, which is Defense and Security Collaborative, and this project was all on the, it was for the Prime Minister’s Office and Global Affairs Canada, who was tasked with helping to shape the policy around the future NATO, Climate Change and Security Center of Excellence.

So my project was one piece of a bigger piece for global Affairs Canada, where we did an external consultation globally with climate change and security experts around the world, all the way from international development to security to emergency response to defense in the military. And we had a series of workshops. We helped to capture that collective intelligence across this group, and then to analyze and make sense of it and feed that information back into global affairs.

So their steering committee could take that piece of information with all of the other expert information that was coming in, in order to make a decision to implement in policy. And today we have the NATO Climate Change Security Center of Excellence in Montreal. Okay.

David Martin: Well, then I guess you did good. That was good. Government did good. You said we did good.

Donna Dupont: And it showed the power, though, of collective intelligence done well, and being able to make sense of that information in a way that’s usable for government to take action on. So that’s what we did exceptionally well.

David Martin: All right. Well, that does sound like good governance. So thank you for that. Thank you for for helping internationally. So Donna DuPont of Purple Compass, thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you and talking about the future.

Donna Dupont: Thank you David. This was a great conversation.

David Martin: Good, good. Well that’s what we try for I think good government show. We will talk again and we will talk to the future. Thank you.

Donna Dupont: Thank you.

David Martin: After you get done with this episode, hear more good government stories with our friends at How to Really Run a City for mayors Kasim Reid of Atlanta and Michael Nutter, a Philadelphia, and their co-host, journalist and author Larry Platt talk with guests and other mayors about how to really get stuff done in cities around the nation. Check them out.

Where you’re listening now or through their nonprofit news site, The Philadelphia Citizen. Dot org slash podcasts.

Or disrupters plan for the disruptors. Good advice from Donald DuPont, a futurist who’s always looking forward a good conversation about how government adapts to future plans. I like what you said. You have to have a future forward vision, a vision that looks at all aspects that may affect the future but is flexible enough to change and adapts as you move forward.

So a good strategy about the best path forward. And I think she made a good case for governments working with consultants. At least when you hear about governments hiring outside consultants, you don’t have to immediately think, oh, that’s just a waste of money because it’s not. Well, that’s our show. Thanks for listening. Please like and share this with your friends and viewers right here where you’re listening, and check out our website.

Good government show.com for extras. Help us keep telling stories of good government and action everywhere. Join us again for another episode right here. I’m Dave Martin and this is the Good Government show.

The Good Government show is a Valley Park production. Jim Ludlow, Dave Martin, that’s me and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our show is edited and produced by Jason Stershic. Please subscribe then share and like us and reviews. That’s the best way to make sure we’re able to keep telling the stories of our government working for all of us.

Then listen to the next episode of The Good Government Show.

**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.