eBikes for Essential Workers in Pueblo County, CO

Carol D’Auria: This is a good government show.

Eva Cosyleon: I think it is making a difference to people. I think it’s giving them. I think it helps over all the greenhouse gases. I can’t say how much or in actual quantity, but what I can say is that e-bikes are more economical for people who might not have the funds for a vehicle that even to replace or fix a vehicle is costly.

And I think a e-bike is a lot more economical. And because polo has pretty moderate temperatures, I think it’s just another good way for them to get around.

Amanda Chase: The best part of this program is it gives essential workers that are income approved, a alternate transportation to work.

Carol D’Auria: Welcome to the good government show. I’m Carol D’Auria.

David Martin: And I’m David Martin. Today on the good government show, we’re going to talk about bike riding.

Carol D’Auria: But not just any type of bike riding. This is about a special bike for a very special group of people. Right, Dave?

David Martin: Right. This is for essential workers in Pueblo, Colorado. But first, this is the good government show if you like us. Tell your friends to listen to make sure to follow us. And please like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. And please rate us where you listen to us. It will help us bring you more stories of good government in action like this one.

David Martin: So, Carol, are you a bike rider?

Carol D’Auria: Well, let’s put it this way. Before I had kids, I really used to ride my bike a lot on the boardwalk. Sometimes I just ride

David Martin: through the beach.

Carol D’Auria: Right. So it was really great. But then, you know, the kids came along and actually when they were little, I had this little trailer thing that I could attach to the back of my bike and I would pull them.

David Martin: All right.

Carol D’Auria: But then, I don’t know. Then it broke. And that was the end of that. And they got destroyed. Yeah. And they got big and and then they didn’t want to ride their bikes with me. So with.

David Martin: All those miles of boardwalk, don’t you ride a little bit all the.

Carol D’Auria: Time, David, to ride.

David Martin: And there’s always time to ride a bike on the beach.

Carol D’Auria: Oh, easy for you to say. So, Dave, I guess you’re a bike rider.

David Martin: Yes. Riding a bike is the best way to get around town.

Carol D’Auria: I knew you were going to say that. Go ahead.

David Martin: It’s true. It’s true. I ride my bike to the gym. I love my bike. No parking. I don’t bring a gas. And now that I ride my bike a lot, I can balance. I can carry two full grocery bags on both handles. So I figured out how to be even. And I’ve got that down in Manhattan. I take the city bike, either an e-bike or a regular bike.

David Martin: It’s a great way to travel.

Carol D’Auria: Yeah, but you’re one of those guys. When I’m driving down the road, I go, Oh, there’s that bicycle guy. Now I have to swerve out of the way. I’m afraid I’m going to hit you. And let me tell you, there’s no way I am far too scared to ride a bike in the city. No way.

David Martin: All right. Well, you certainly have to be careful. You have to pay attention. And yes, a little bit of fear and loathing for the cars and for that guy with his earbuds who’s staring at his phone. But it’s not always easy, but it really is a great way to get around. Did I mention there’s no parking problems with.

Carol D’Auria: How you did? Look, Dave, glad you get to ride a bike, but who are these bike riders that you. Tell me about.

David Martin: Them. Okay, so back to the story. So we’re going to go to Pueblo, Colorado, in Pueblo County. And this is a county it’s in south central Colorado. And what’s nice about Pueblo is despite what you may think, it’s actually pretty slyly.

Carol D’Auria: I’m surprised.

David Martin: Yeah, no, it’s the front range of the Rockies, and this is the part of Colorado that’s just east of the mountains. So it’s considered to be the high desert. So it doesn’t really rain that much on bike riders.

Carol D’Auria: So we think that’s good. Bike riding conditions then?

David Martin: Yes, not much rain, not much snow, good overall weather and yeah, bikes are welcome in Pueblo.

Carol D’Auria: You know, I actually have seen people ride their bikes in the snow in New York City.

David Martin: I have ridden my bike in the snow in New York City, in Colorado. Might be a little bit more snow, but yes.

Carol D’Auria: Oh, boy.

David Martin: They can. But the nice thing about Pueblo is really good bike riding conditions most of the year.

Carol D’Auria: So you said e-bikes. Let’s define our terms. What for those people like me who don’t ride? What do you mean when you say you bike?

David Martin: Okay, so when you think of an e-bike, it’s a bike. Think about it as a pedal assist. You ride your bike and there’s a riding. A small motor kicks in, so you pedal, but you get help.

Carol D’Auria: I will admit I could use an assist when I bike ride once in a while.

David Martin: All right, well, first we’d have to figure out if you’re an essential worker here at the good government show, because we’re not just giving out these e-bikes to just anybody. And besides, you have a big car. But in Pueblo, these are the folks getting bikes. It’s essential workers. That’s where they’re giving their bikes out to. So let me introduce you to Eva Castilian.

She’s a transit planner for the area’s Metro Planning Association and for the city of Pueblo.

Eva Cosyleon: So it’s a it’s a regular bike where what happens is, is there’s a motor on it. And we’ve got two different bikes. We got a class one and a class two e-bike. Both of them go up to 20 miles per hour. And the class one, what happens is, is there’s a motor. And once you start pedaling, the motor will engage.

And so that motor can help propel you along the way. Those are nice if you have a long commute, you don’t arrive sweaty at your destination. If you if you a lot of have a lot of hills a longer commute that also helps the class to has the throttle so you don’t need to pedal to actually engage the motor but both of them are very similar.

Carol D’Auria: So I’m guessing the pandemic must have played a role here, right?

David Martin: Yeah. And basically, that’s how this all got started. Essential, right. Essential workers needed to get to work. That included folks who worked in hospitals or worked in senior homes, teachers, folks who worked in retail. You know, busses were running on reduced schedules and, you know, people just didn’t want to be around other people who are not, you know, sort of in our little COVID bubbles that we all sort of had.

So the idea of riding a bike out alone outside that car, popular, and that’s what led even to come up with this plan.

Eva Cosyleon: We thought that this would be a great opportunity to bring E-bikes to Pueblo and introduce them to Polo. E-bikes have become hugely popular. Colorado’s actually known to be a very popular state to go biking in. And our demographics, we have a little bit older and we thought that this would be a good opportunity to introduce e-bikes, but then also a good way to support essential workers who suffered during the pandemic and provide them and others mode of transportation.

Carol D’Auria: You know, when I think of Colorado, Dave, I think of mountains and snow. Really? They can ride this bike all year round. Yeah, I have my doubts about that.

David Martin: Like I said, it’s it’s high desert. It’s Pueblo is really before the Rocky Mountains, sort of, you know, launch up into the sky. And I asked Steve that. We talked a little bit about that. And here’s what she had to say.

Eva Cosyleon: We are very fortunate in Pueblo that we probably have about 358 days of sunshine. And we do have a few cold spots here and there, but for the most part, you can ride year round. For example, last week I was driving to work and it was four degrees and I did see one of our bikers on the road and he was out there and he was well clothed, but he was out there riding and I think once you get used to that, I think that people can ride year around here.

David Martin: I talked to even the early spring and there had been some cold days, but for the most part she said, you can ride year round now Carol. Do you feel better about riding in Colorado?

Carol D’Auria: Well, maybe in Pueblo. I don’t think I could ride up a mountain. Really. But I do like the concept here. They figured out a way to help workers and take cars off the road. It’s like a twofer and proactive, good government. So how does the actual plan work when they put it into practice?

David Martin: Okay. So Iva and Amanda Chase, she’s the deputy director of parks for Pueblo County. They decided they wanted to create some type of bike program for the county. And a local environmental group basically lobbied for more bikes and pointed them toward something called the Colorado Energy Office. And that was providing grants for bikes. So the two women looked into the program, they applied for grants, and ultimately the state gave them $150,000.

That was just enough to buy 42 bikes and put together a pilot project for the e-bikes.

Carol D’Auria: All right. Well, that’s a fairly modest amount, though, right?

David Martin: But it got them the 42 bikes. And as we’ve seen before in projects like this and others, state and local governments, they get together and able to create something that works for the people. Now, when we return, we’re going to talk about how they distributed the bikes. But first, a word from our sponsor, Naco. That’s the National Association of Counties.

The Good Government Show welcomes a new sponsor for season two, and that’s NACO. And that’s the National Association of Counties. Carol, did you know that county government affects more people than any other form of government?

Carol D’Auria: Well, I do now. Funny you would think city or the federal government is bigger.

David Martin: Well, right, but. But it’s not. You’d think about this. Roads, highways, hospitals, schools, recycling, law enforcement, water, sewers: in most of the country, those services are maintained by the county. That’s county government.

Carol D’Auria: And we want to see good county government. And that’s where Naco comes in.

David Martin: Exactly. They’re a nationwide organization that represents all 3,069 counties across the U.S..

Carol D’Auria: Now, that’s a lot of support and more importantly, brain power.

David Martin: Exactly. And they have many organizations and committees and they do things like share best practices and they work together on national issues.

Carol D’Auria: And they are urban, suburban and rural counties that have different challenges. But they can still work together.

David Martin: Yes, they all work together. So NACO helps county government work better. And as we see in this and other episodes, when county government works well, that’s just good government.

Carol D’Auria: So thanks, NACO, for providing us with great stories and helping support good government.

David Martin: And thanks NACO for supporting the good government. And remember, citizens, don’t forget to vote.

Welcome back to the good government show. Okay, they got the bikes. Now it’s time to get them to the people.

Carol D’Auria: So how do they take who’s going to get a bike? I’m sure a lot of people wanted them.

David Martin: Here’s how they picked it. First, everyone had to be a Pueblo County resident, and they also had to make under $35,000 a year. And as we discussed, they had to be an essential worker. And there’s a definition of what the Colorado essential workers are. So they went along with that program, but they put the program up on the county website and began collecting applications.

Carol D’Auria: All right. So then what kind of response did they get? A lot of people?

David Martin: Well, it was a little slow at first. And part of it is because folks just couldn’t believe they were getting a free bike.

Carol D’Auria: Wait, wait. This is a free bike. They didn’t have to pay any like a down payment or anything. Pass deposit.

David Martin: Essentially. Here’s how it works. First, you apply, then you have to be approved. Then you have to pay $150 deposit. That’s just a deposit for the bike. But it’s yours. You own it. The new bike owners, they have to basically keep it. You have to use it for two years. There are some usage requirements, but basically, yeah, it’s their bike.

Carol D’Auria: Wow. They just hand you a bike. That’s incredible.

David Martin: Well, again, the deposit and they had to put a program together and they had to go through the program.

Amanda Chase: We want people to feel welcome. We know that some people haven’t been on a bike for a while, so we start off by having some of the local businesses donate granola bars, juice, water, coffee, breakfast burritos. So we bring them in. We have the conversation about what the program is, make sure that everybody understands what the intentions of the program is.
Once everybody is comfortable, we get them a bike, we have them sign the contract, we go over the safety part with them. Then we actually get them out and we have them right around our complex a little bit and then help them, you know, maybe they’re having the balance issue we work on through that. We slowly bring them out to the roads and we even have some busier roads around us to help them learn how to navigate with traffic.

David Martin: Okay, now we have the bikes out. The riders are getting used to them and they’re starting to ride bikes.

Carol D’Auria: So these bikes, they have given them out. Are these just like you just ride the bike to work and that’s it?

David Martin: No, because remember, it’s their bike. They own it. That’s right. Right. And remember the other goal that’s to get cars off the road.

Amanda Chase: We want them to use it whenever they’re going to drive a vehicle or take a bus or any other alternative transportation. We encourage them to use it. So if that means going to the hairstylist or to the grocery store or to work, that’s what we’re we’re encouraging them to take this alternative transportation.

David Martin: But, Carol, there’s a whole other element we haven’t talked about.

Carol D’Auria: What is that?

David Martin: Well, health. Riding a bike is good for you. It’s a little exercise. It’s a movement. It’s some heart health. And there’s no stress about driving in traffic.

Carol D’Auria: Yeah, well, unless you get hit.

David Martin: All right, well.

Carol D’Auria: Has anyone gotten hit yet?

David Martin: You had to bring that up?

Carol D’Auria: Yes.

David Martin: Yes, one person got hit. He broke his arm. But after eight weeks, it’s healed and he’s back on his bike because a broken wing is not keeping this guy off his bike. Oh, no, no, no. This guy a he’s a committed bike rider. But, you know, even we talked a lot about the pedal assist. But even with this pedal assist, you know, you’re skeptical.

I know you’re scared.

Carol D’Auria: Because it sounds like it would negate the exercise that you’re getting.

David Martin: Well, you’ve got to try one out. You still have to pedal. But I did talk to Amanda about that. What has been your pleasant surprise as you’ve put these bikes on the road?

Amanda Chase: Basically, I think for me personally would be how it has changed some of the individual’s life. Some of them might have not been in the best health condition or, you know, were walking everyday to work. And it’s just the smile on their face has surprised me. I mean, I thought it would make an impact, but it to me it’s a huge impact.

And I guess I didn’t expect that.

David Martin: You say a huge impact from your point of view. What’s the huge impact?

Amanda Chase: It just the ability to go across town where they might have not been able to prior the well, the health promotion part, part of it, you know, it’s an a pedal assist. So they still have to bike ride, but it gives them that little bit extra boost and maybe where prior they thought they could only go a mile.

Now they’re going 5 to 10 miles and they’re seeing things throughout the community they probably haven’t seen in years, and it’s just giving them opportunities that they didn’t think they’d have.

David Martin: And are you are you taking cars off the road?

Amanda Chase: That’s the idea behind it. In a lot of cases, some of these individuals did walk. So you’re replacing basically steps for miles on the bike. In other instances, yes, they did take cars. They carpooled, they took the bus. So we hope that, you know, maybe not 42 vehicles off the road, but we’re at least hoping for the mid-thirties.

Carol D’Auria: Okay. So we have cars off the road and health benefits. I’m starting to get, you know, a little bit of inspired to find my bike.

David Martin: All right. Well, good, good. We’re on the right track with you. All right. So for some of these new bike owners, that’s really how they felt. The same way you did. Like, I’m not so sure about this. Well, I talked with in that sense, Stephen, and she’s one of the bike riders. She’s a school librarian. She told me she was thinking about riding a bike a few years ago and she was married at the time.

And she told her husband she wanted a bike and I don’t think he got the message because apparently he bought one of those bikes for the garden.

Carol D’Auria: You mean like an ornamental bike? Apparently, yes. If you put the flowers in the basket and and it just stays parked.

David Martin: Exactly. So that’s what he got her? Not exactly what she had in mind.

Carol D’Auria: No.

David Martin: But after years of not riding, she has a bike and she’s back on her bike and she said there’s an added benefit. She gets to talk to kids about bike safety.

Annette Santasteven: Oh, they think it’s great. They they ask me questions about it because it’s a little different bike with the motor and all. And they ask me why I wear a helmet and I explain the safety of it and how they should do the same thing when they’re riding their bikes and they ask me why the other teachers aren’t riding their bikes, and I just tell them it’s their choice that I choose to ride it because we all need exercise and and it’s fun.

Carol D’Auria: So even though there’s a motor on the bike, is it really exercise? That’s I’m having trouble with that.

David Martin: You’re having a lot of trouble with this. Yes. And that’s going to tell you about that.

Annette Santasteven: I noticed I have more energy and my muscles, they feel healthier. And inside it gives me a good feeling knowing I’m out there doing it. I do feel a lot more energetic. I was having some knee issues. I went to the doctor a few times and he told me that riding the bike would be good and I have seen an improvement in that.

Carol D’Auria: All right. Giving teachers a bike to drive to work. I can see the benefits on several levels. I really do. Yes.

David Martin: So does it. Next year she’s going to talk directly to you now. What’s your favorite part about having a bike?

Annette Santasteven: I love getting the exercise and not having to drive my car so much because I for one, I don’t like to ruin the environment more than I have to. And I think the bike is the best way to do it because it’s a plus for me and on my house.

Carol D’Auria: All right. I have to admit, it is actually inspiring.

David Martin: All right. And after the break, you’re going to be really inspired by other people. So you will be you’re going to get your bike out. Trust me.

Carol D’Auria: The good government show is sponsored by Liquid. Welcome back to season two, Liquid.

David Martin: And we still love Liquid and not just because they are a sponsor again. But Carol, here’s a fun fact. A recent study found that over 80% of retail shoppers conduct online research before making a purchase. Do you do that?

Carol D’Auria: Well, yeah. You know, I do it when I know what I’m buying. Like, for instance, we needed some bug spray for the backyard. We were having a party, but we have dogs. So I didn’t want anything toxic for the dogs? So I had to run down a lot of products online.

David Martin: So you did your research.

Carol D’Auria: I did.

David Martin: All right. Good. And if you’re in a business, you really have to do your research because you really want to evaluate who you’re working with and making sure the company you are about to partner with, you want to make sure it’s a good fit.

Carol D’Auria: That makes sense. So you want to stand out to other companies that are checking your company out.

David Martin: Exactly. And that’s where Liquid comes in. They can help your business create a digital presence with impact. So you can be impressive to new businesses and keep your customers.

Carol D’Auria: And it’s not just about a website. See how much I’ve learned about Liquid since the first season?

David Martin: You are Liquid-aware, good for you, right. So they can guide you where to advertise, make sure your social media is relevant, and it engages your customers. They want to make sure your digital story answers your potential customers’ questions before they even have to ask them.

Carol D’Auria: And that’s but Liquid is good at: creating a full marketing and online digital presence.

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Carol D’Auria: And you will love Liquid as much as we do.

David Martin: Because they’re our sponsor. We love Liquid.

We want to welcome back as a sponsor to the Good Government Show, Kutztown University of Kutztown, Pennsylvania.

Carol D’Auria: And you want to talk about their rugby team?

David Martin: Well, they do have a good rugby team that just won a national tournament. And what I did was I called a friend, his daughter played at Kutztown, she played on the rugby team and asked him what did he like best about Kutztown?

Carol D’Auria: You mean besides the rugby team?

David Martin: Yeah, besides the team, obviously the team first. But he responded immediately and said something I didn’t know. His favorite thing is the chicken tower or it’s also called the Angry Chicken.

Carol D’Auria: What? I hesitate to ask. The Angry Chicken?

David Martin: Well, it’s such a landmark that it’s actually the school’s logo. It’s a clock tower. And apparently when you look from a special angle, the clock looks a little bit like a chicken with an open beak. So it’s the angry chicken.

Carol D’Auria: Okay, then. Well, let’s talk about the other stuff like that their degree program in music business is now nationally accredited. They offer undergraduate certificates in cybersecurity and technical writing.

David Martin: So is this what we do? Is this technical writing?

Carol D’Auria: Oh, no, no, no. Take his class and maybe get better at writing.

David Martin: Oh, come on. That’s not fair. You know what? You would benefit from the new graduate certificate program and be a school social worker. Maybe you’d be nicer.

Carol D’Auria: All right, well, the point is, Kutztown is a forward-looking university. They also offer Pell Promise scholarships. And for students to qualify, student tuitions and fees are all covered.

David Martin: And that’s just some of why we like Kutztown and are happy to be associated with this university. Oh, my friend thought it was really cool that sometimes the locals stay right here in a horse and buggy. So check out Kutztown University. That’s Kutztown University and cheer on the rugby team.

Carol D’Auria: Of course.

David Martin: Yes, please. Okay, Carol, are you ready to be inspired? Are you ready to get your bike out of the garage?

Carol D’Auria: Oh, you’re really pulling to me. Well, let me hear what they have to say before I start looking for my bike helmet.

David Martin: We’ll get you a new bike helmet. Okay. Fair enough. Let me introduce you to Robert Baker. He works for the Pueblo Cooperative Care Center and this is a community assistance organization. He’s on a mission to eliminate as much carbon as he can. So his goal is to use his bike for 75% of his trips. And guess what? He’s getting there.

Carol D’Auria: Really? Yeah.

Robert Baker: Well, you know, I’m all against the fossil fuels, so anything that we can create to lessen the hold on the air quality, that’s what’s the most important part to me. My convenience really isn’t that. That doesn’t concern me. What concerns me is the future of our planet.

Carol D’Auria: Okay. Saving the planet one bike at a time. I do like that.

David Martin: Then you’re going to love Robert Mulgrew. He’s the chef at a senior care facility and having his bike allowed him to get rid of his car completely. Imagine that.

Carol D’Auria: No, I can’t imagine that.

David Martin: No car. All right, let’s hear what Robert has to say.

Robert Muldrew: Well, you figure what it costs me to use a car. The health hazards of using a car. You know, you’re more inclined to pay more to walk into traffic when you’re on a bike than when you’re in a car. You got less distractions because you don’t have a stereo blasting in your ear. You’re not trying to sound good.

You got two hands on the handlebars, things like that, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it’s a it’s a win win for me.

Carol D’Auria: Good points, I have to admit.

David Martin: Yes. And he, too, sees the health benefits.

Robert Muldrew: Well, I’ve always been a physical person. This. Yes. Encourages me to stay. That way. Consider I’m getting older, it keeps me active instead of me saying, I’m going to sit in the house today, you know, I don’t get off of work. I’ll go for a ride, I’ll write to that. We’ll have this area downtown called The River Walks, allows you to go walk on a photo shoot just enjoying a nice sunny day.

We’re not only if I didn’t have the bike, I would probably just come home and turn on the TV.

Carol D’Auria: All right. So at this point, has the program, like, really taken off?

David Martin: Well, first, have we soldier on the health benefits?

Carol D’Auria: Yes, I would say yes.

David Martin: All right. Good, good, good.

Carol D’Auria: I have some doubts. But I the overall just the idea of getting on the bike, it really is a good idea. Yes. So it’s a mindset.

David Martin: It is a bit of a mindset. So, yes, the program has taken off. The first 42 bikes have been delivered. There’s a lot of things happening, but these folks got on their bike and now for many of them, it’s their primary source of transportation.

Carol D’Auria: Is it working? I mean, is this program really successful?

David Martin: Yes, 42 bikes. Many of these people have already personalized their bikes. They put in baskets, they put in holders, they put on accessories. They made the bikes their own. The county is talking about a second grant for even more bikes. And they think the next time around they’re going to target specific types of workers like promoted with more teachers or perhaps hospitals, people who work at hospitals.

Carol D’Auria: Okay. So they target specific groups. But let me ask you honestly, any flaws in this program? I mean, there’s got to be something.

David Martin: Nothing’s perfect. Nothing’s perfect. Okay. They recognize that the self-reporting system isn’t always perfect, so they want to refine that one bike was stolen.

Carol D’Auria: Okay.

David Martin: Yeah. So they’re working on adding a GPS tracking system so they can monitor all the bikes. They’re also talking about long range plans, like a larger bike share program. So there really is a future here for more e-bikes. And again, don’t forget, they’re getting cars off the road.

Amanda Chase: Yes, it is a small amount, but the point of this grant is every individual, let’s say they used to do five rides in a vehicle and we have it down to maybe one on a cold day, then that each each little amount adds up big in the end. And that’s the point of this type of grant. And then they tell a friend and then they tell another friend and eventually, hopefully it spreads.

Carol D’Auria: It’s already spreading. It seems.

David Martin: Really it is. And one of the bike riders mentioned this, but Pablo has a river walk and there along the Arkansas River runs right through town. It’s got a bike lane and the county is working on expanding their bike trails. The goal in Pueblo is to match other Colorado cities like Boulder and Fort Collins, which are the gold standards in Colorado.

Expanded bike lanes, very bike friendly towns.

Carol D’Auria: So bikes sounds good. Personally, I’m still not ready to ride to work though.

David Martin: But it could be done.

Carol D’Auria: Yes, I will Grant you that. Yeah. I like the idea of expanding the bike lanes.

David Martin: So some folks ride their bikes a few miles every day. Some folks ride for several miles every day. But the point is, in Pueblo anyway, 42 people got a bike. They can leave their car at home. They don’t have to take a bus or they shorten their commute by riding a bike instead of taking a long walk. So for these first 42 E-bike riders, this has been a great program.

Carol D’Auria: I bet I know mountains to ride up and good riding weather most of the time. This is good government really was a good solution for getting people to work and cars off the road.

David Martin: So let’s get the last word to Robert. He’s the senior bike rider there group. And he brought up one more point about the benefits of bike riding.

Robert Baker: I know most of my people that I see during my day. I don’t live like normal people do nowadays. They’re always on the phone or they’re always on a machine. And I’m outside and I get to meet the people in my community. So I know my community.

Carol D’Auria: I bet he does. And I bet he waves at everyone and riding bikes.

David Martin: Oh, you know, and he probably knows the names of pretty passes all the way back and forth. He’s that kind of guy. Anyway, that’s how good government works. And Pueblo County, Colorado.

Carol D’Auria: And that’s another story of how good government works works for, in this case, 42 new bike riders. They’re essential workers with transportation challenges now out of their cars. That really is a great concept off the bus and getting exercise and good health on their own bike. Great story, David. Thanks. Wouldn’t it?

David Martin: You’re ready. You ready to rise? All right. You ready to ride? I’ve got to get my bike. We’re going to get out of the beach. We’re going to take a log ride of the boardwalk. Are you ready? Okay.

Carol D’Auria: All right.

David Martin: Good. Well, thanks for listening. I’m David Martin.

Carol D’Auria: And I’m Carol D’Auria. This is the good government show. See you next time. When we tell you another story about government working.

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For extras on all of our shows, visit our website, www.goodgovinstitute.org/.

The Good Government Show is produced by Valley Park Productions. Jim Ludlow, David Martin and David Snyder are the executive producers. Jason Stershic is our producer and editor. Some transcriptions were done by Kofi Ajeasi Ampah. Our hosts are me, David Martin and Carol D’Auria. Join us again for the Good Government Show, wherever you listen to podcasts.