Downtown Revitalization in Coal Country

David Martin: This is the good government show.

Gabriel Peña: The downtown Appalachian communities. Yes, they are a challenge. But again, it feels like they’re an opportunity also to not only, you know, tell unique story, but also to bring a spark of energy and of life into these areas that have been for so long forgotten. In a way, I think it’s also we’re fostering hope in these communities that that need it very badly.

We have to connect these outdoor recreation assets to downtown somehow. The government is really facilitating a diverse and open conversation within the community, where we’re getting lots of viewpoints and lots of lots of feedback on the way Council or our, you know, local governing body are thinking about these things. You can run around and try to go enjoy the cool places, or you can stay here and make this a cool place.

That was really the dichotomy in my mind.

David Martin: Downtown redevelopment. It’s an issue many cities are struggling to do in Appalachian coal country. The challenges are huge, but there is progress. Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m Dave Martin. Please share a please there. Welcome to the Good government show. I’m Dave Martin first. Help us share the message of good government by liking us and sharing us where we are on Facebook, X, YouTube, Instagram and Blue Sky.

Please share our show with your friends and viewers where you’re listening and join our good government show community. Check out our website for the link. Earlier this year, I was invited to a conference called Building Resilient Economies in Coal Communities. As all of you regular listeners know, I’m intrigued by West Virginia and Appalachia, and I jumped at the chance to hear about the progress being made there.

Earlier, I talked with Cora Gnegy about the impact of tourism in the region. We talked about the newest national park that’s the new River Gorge, kayaking and rafting and ATV trails. Tourism really is having an impact. But on this show, I got to sit down and talk with Gabe Pena. He’s a member of the Fayetteville, West Virginia Town Council.

He spoke about redeveloping downtowns throughout the region. We discussed some creative ideas, like turning schools into apartments. And sure, it’s being done in lots of places, but in some apartments, those old chalkboards are still up. But anyway, you’ll hear about that. As he explains, revitalization is part of a comprehensive overall plan. As Gabe says, sometimes selling residents on investing in old buildings can be hard.

But he says it’s vital to creating a community so that conversations coming up right after this. Is what of World War One never happened? What if these three royal cousins King George of England, Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany and Czar Nicholas of Russia chose peace over pride? Good government show executive producer Jim Ludlow has just released a new book.

The Royal Cousins is a gripping alternate history that imagines how diplomacy and courage could have stopped a war that took 22 million lives, if only they used the principles of good government. Download The Royal Cousins now on Kindle. It’s powerful, timely and just $0.99, and all the proceeds support our work here on the Good Government Show. Just search the royal cousins on Amazon today.

Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m happy to have with me Gabe Pena. He is a city council member for Fayetteville, West Virginia, but he is also with the West Virginia Community Development Hub. So you wear two hats?

Gabriel Peña: Yes, sir.

David Martin: And both hats are all about good government.

Gabriel Peña: They are about good community engagement.

David Martin: Good community, good.

Gabriel Peña: To facilitate buy in and local participation and municipal government.

David Martin: So the reason why we’re talking today is there is a forum here at the National Association of Counties for Building Resilient Economies in Coal Communities, and it was a forum that you are a part of. And you spoke about downtown revitalization.

Gabriel Peña: Yes, sir.

David Martin: All right. So I spent a little bit of time in coal communities, and most of them have a downtown that is either abandoned or at best, a shadow of its former self. So this is a regional problem. And you solved it. How have you done it. I don’t know.

Gabriel Peña: About solved it but you know definitely pointed to some high points or some some assets that almost all these communities have. And one of those would be historic structures. Right. Beautiful structures cut stone acoustic ceilings, high ceilings, structures that they just don’t build them like they used to. And so looking at those as not only an opportunity to, to tell a story about how things used to be, but also to, to create spaces where entrepreneurs can come in and have like a unique showing or a unique storefront, something that really contributes to their development as a business.

And does does, does bring a distinction to these communities. That not all, you know, suburban areas or urban areas really can, can provide that same kind of experience. So I think the downtown Appalachian communities, yes, they are a challenge. But again, it feels like they’re an opportunity also to not only, you know, tell a unique story, but also to bring a spark of energy and of life into these areas that have been for so long forgotten.

So in a way, I think it’s also we’re fostering hope in these communities that that need it very badly.

David Martin: Well, okay, let’s talk a little bit about the hope that that has been abandoned, because I’ve been in some of these communities and there’s just there’s no they’re there. It’s tough. You know, there’s a downtown that’s that’s a shadow of what it was, largely abandoned. How do you bring people back into downtown?

Gabriel Peña: I mean, a number of strategies that are being used that we learned about today. Remote worker location programs. Okay. Right. Which does depend on broadband infrastructure. And we’ve seen the the building equity, advancing digital access, Beat the Beat program. West Virginia is getting, to $2 billion for that kind of program, really, to bring that infrastructure that will help with remote work, capitalizing on the outdoor recreation assets.

Right. A lot of these, these communities are adjacent to beautiful waterways. It’s beautiful forests, wilderness in general. And.

David Martin: While I’ve talked with different people in Virginia and West Virginia, we’ve talked about ATV trails. Yeah, we talked about the Hatfield, the McCoy trails in West Virginia. Yep. We’ve talked about, kayaking and river rafting and canoeing and stuff on the river. So, yeah, that’s tourism is certainly a part of that. Does that bring people downtown or is this not really kind of leave them out on the river or the trail?

Gabriel Peña: You make a very good point that, you know, we have to connect these outdoor recreation assets to downtown somehow. And so whether that be, we are bringing a trailhead right into downtown downtown or, we want to make sure that there are the kind of zoning laws allowed so that short term rentals can be on the second floor of a building and on the first floor, that can be retail space.

We definitely have work to do at the community level to make sure that as these outdoor recreation assets are developed, whether it be trails, trailheads, public bathrooms, that we are mirroring those efforts in downtown. So whether it be trying to attract a coffee shop, some or mechanic that can help fix the ATVs. You know, these are part of the overall strategy to really to revitalize, these downtowns.

And so, yeah, historic assets can be part of that. But we do have the challenge of making sure that a lot of the environmental contaminants that we see in these buildings are addressed. So loudness best. Those are the big ones. Yep. And then we also have.

David Martin: Is it worth it, though? I mean, you know, you’ve got you’ve got these buildings that were built, you know, in the, in the 20s and 30s and older. You know, you got, I understand they look pretty, but is this a is this a good use of government dollars to rebuild, house a building that was built in the 1920s?

Gabriel Peña: Well, some of the some of the building materials, you know, for example. Yeah, the old historic high school.

David Martin: Yes.

Gabriel Peña: That stone is, is cut, you know, by Italian stonemasons. Of not all sandstone, which is prime quality stands on from what I’m told by the rock climbers in our communities. Yeah. That sandstone is just perfect for rock climbing.

David Martin: Okay.

Gabriel Peña: Not only is the proof of rock climbing, apparently it’s awesome for building schools walls and stone walls in our town. And again, it tells that story of Italian stonemasons came to Fayette County, West Virginia, at the turn of century to find economic opportunity. Like so many folks are today. So I think it not only is it is it worth it, but it also, you know, removing we can remove the asbestos, we can remove the lead.

Great job. Jobs doing that. Yeah. But then also we preserve this, this important part of of our history. Now. So, so that’s that’s Fayetteville.

David Martin: All right. Well, hang on in Fayetteville. It sounds like you have converted a school.

Gabriel Peña: We have converted part of a. Yes, we had two. We have three schools in our hands. Yeah. We’ve converted one into, residential housing, which we do struggle with housing. I think the drawback with tourism is that it also is a recruitment tool, and it can bring people into your communities where they’re snatching up houses and driving up the cost.

But we’ll leave that for a second. So we do have how we we do have a housing challenge and the redevelopment of one of the schools that the town of Fayetteville owned. You know, we sold it. The developer turned it into 17 units.

David Martin: How are the apartments?

Gabriel Peña: They’re beautiful. Yeah. They’re beautiful. I’m not. I wouldn’t call them affordable, per se. It’s really more middle income housing. But.

David Martin: Does it still look like a school?

Gabriel Peña: It looks like a school that still has the lockers inside, as well as the chalkboards in some of the rooms.

David Martin: No kidding.

Gabriel Peña: In order to get the historic tax credits, both state and federal, some of those elements had to stay in place. And so it does look like a, you know, old middle school from around 1930s. But it’s got much more energy efficient windows.

David Martin: The revitalization of downtown is a is a is an issue that many, many citizens and towns across the nation are dealing with. The shopping mall on the outside of town, or the shopping mall that served a couple of towns, and then the big box store on the other side of town that everybody went to. And, you know, they just sort of abandoned the downtown.

How do you bring people back?

Gabriel Peña: Well, there’s.

David Martin: Or is this what keeps you up at night? I mean, it’s it’s really.

Gabriel Peña: Just to a certain degree, it keeps me up at night. But I also think it just it takes time, right? Where? This isn’t going to happen overnight. It’s the long haul type game. I think one example we’ve seen in Fayetteville, West Virginia is, you know, people who were tied to the outdoor recreation economy came in and opened a business because they saw a need.

And then, you know, there was a snowball effect where other businesses also saw that there was starting to to to build a, a critical mass of people starting to come downtown for whatever reason. And then the coffee shop opened and then the pizza shop opened and then the sandwich shop opened, and then it’s like, this is a it was a really organic, entrepreneurial ecosystem that I wouldn’t say back in 1986 when Waterstone Outdoors opened.

There was a government there that was trying to usher them in. They just did it because they saw the opportunity. Right. That has turned into, you know.

David Martin: And how does government help the next guy?

Gabriel Peña: We we figure out ways to help grease the skids as far as historic, revitalization or redevelopment and do the environmental side assessments. Yeah, I find funding to to make sure that the the asbestos in the lead is removed. White boxes, places, make sure they have the adequate infrastructure. If there needs to be some sort of grace period on there be, you know, it’s like for the first six months that you’re operating or that you’re in construction, we’re going to waive the businesses operating taxes so that you can just continue focusing on building your business out.

Those type of deals. Again, looking at those those requirements for someone to open a business and helping to to check off some of those boxes for the entrepreneur.

David Martin: Any cool projects come to mind of, of buildings that have been reclaimed downtown, that were turned into something.

Gabriel Peña: In Fayetteville or elsewhere? Anywhere. Anywhere. Yeah. I’d say, this is a Logan and Logan County, West Virginia. One of the areas that’s been hard hit by the downturn in the coal industry, opioids, all of it. The Logan medical housing. I forget exactly what it’s called, but they have one of the few rural residential surgery programs in Appalachia.

I think maybe one of the only ones. But the folks that would would there would be surgeons who are coming to Logan County to take part in that program. Couldn’t find a place to live. Okay, so, the city of Logan, bought this building up and have been working on redeveloping it into 11 units. And at the top of the list of folks for, for, you know, renting the tenants will be the folks that are going through this rural surgery residency.

David Martin: Well, as listeners of the show know, I went to Welsh and McDowell County, West Virginia, and they built a 60 unit apartment building for teachers. Yeah. And the idea was we put that in and somebody’s going to want a dry cleaner, and they’re going to want a coffee shop, and it has its fits and starts. Sure. But that’s the idea is that what are their prices like this across the coal country.

Gabriel Peña: Similar similar ones. Yeah. Again I think then these projects have to be multifaceted, right. It can’t it can’t necessarily be just redevelopment in and of itself. Right. Ideally we’re hitting on entrepreneur development. Redevelopment. Housing. Recovery. There’s a there’s a recovery program happening in Fayette County where, a gentleman who actually also owns a hydroponics operation is trying to find.

All right. And he’s in the process.

David Martin: He’s got those tall, that tall buildings.

Gabriel Peña: Identified as.

David Martin: Structure, the big ceiling.

Gabriel Peña: Structure or on on the floor. He wants to put the hydroponic and the, you know, the ground floor. He wants to put the hydroponic operation on second or third floor. He wants to put housing for folks that are transitioning out of homelessness and to secure stable housing. And he wants to put those folks to work and down in the hydroponics operation.

And so he’s creating opportunities not only for them to, to work and get out of active addiction, if that’s what they’re in. And getting to active recovery while also building their skills, and finding secure and stable housing. So, you know, the downtown redevelopment, it it has to be part just one small part of a broader effort to really build more, workforce.

David Martin: How does government get behind that?

Gabriel Peña: Well, we start small. Yeah, right. With planning. So many of these projects start with here is the problem. Here are some of the plans that we have. We could potentially take this structure or or this piece of land and build something that touches on workforce development. You know, redevelopment.

David Martin: So you sit. There you go. Okay. We’ve got a block of downtown. What can we do?

Gabriel Peña: What can we do?

David Martin: How what what belongs how.

Gabriel Peña: Many can we hit with one stone? Okay. As we try to address these challenges facing these rural communities. And so another good example. In Fayette County, West Virginia, was an 82 acre farm that had been sitting fallow for 15, 16 years doing absolutely nothing. The buildings falling into themselves. The fake Farmland Protection Board had some money setting aside from all of the, the excise taxes that had come to them with property transfers.

Good policy. Right? And they were able to take that, that money and go to auction and buy that farm and then turn it into a business incubator, for entrepreneur, for agricultural entrepreneurs. And so trying to grow the local food economy, along with redeveloping this property to where it was something that was really meeting the needs of the community.

You know, food access is an issue in these areas. Also, access to just Whole Foods is something we all struggle with. And so, you know, by taking this, this, this piece of.

David Martin: Property, especially with the restaurant in town as a McDonald’s.

Gabriel Peña: Or. Yeah, or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to figure out ways to to increase access to healthy foods while also supporting those entrepreneurs who are the ones that are entrepreneurs who are going to be growing that food for the next, hopefully many years.

David Martin: A lot of these rural communities in Appalachia, were coal towns, and the coal company came in and they built the housing and they built the infrastructure, and they built the downtown, and they built the coal company store. And I’ve seen these is their success in turning the, the old company store into, more vital stores today.

Gabriel Peña: Those ones are tough right. I mean there’s definitely is.

David Martin: They were big.

Gabriel Peña: There. There’s a.

David Martin: That they were in this center of town because that’s how everybody went.

Gabriel Peña: To college with these buildings also. Right. They haven’t had the roof on there. If the roof’s been leaking for too many years and you know, then.

David Martin: You’re time to take the structural.

Gabriel Peña: Components are going to be as, yes, we have lost a lot of good historic structures for sure. When Town of Fayetteville got the old, you know, Fayetteville High School built in 1923, one of the first things we did is put a roof on it and then start remediating for black mold. Okay. And we are still paying for that remediation effort.

Just to essentially to, to keep.

David Martin: But there must be people who argue this is a waste of money.

Gabriel Peña: Sure. But there are also donors who are donating to the town of Fayetteville’s Historic Preservation Fund that that want to make sure to see that that building becomes something and doesn’t go. I mean, because we looked at tearing that building down. Yeah. And it was a $400,000 bill just to tear it down, just to haul it off. And so, you know, we’re about $461,000 into remediating it.

But also, you know, once, once we were able to turn that building into a from a school building where it was assessed for $0 to a, to a hotel, boutique hotel where it’s going to be assessed close closer to $400,000 than we should be generating from from that that revenue that goes into our Tiff district, $11 million over 30 years.

So, yes, I know we’ve been holding on and investing in something that feels like we’re throwing money down a hole. Yeah, but if we hadn’t been doing that, we wouldn’t have the opportunity to capitalize on it the way we we plan to do so moving forward.

David Martin: Is it hard to sell that? You know, as a as someone who’s on the city council, hey, we’re going to spend a lot of your money right now. But don’t worry, in a few years you’re going to get it all back. Is that a hard sell?

Gabriel Peña: I don’t think so. Well, I mean, again, it’s and it’s, you know, all these cases are different. But I think it was easy to see and kind of just feel the pulse that this is an important structure to this community. Right? The whole consolidation conversation. You lose your high school. You lose your middle school years or elementary.

And now we’re going to the next town over. We’re sending our kids the next town over to go to school. We still have the high school here, but it’s closed. So it’s like, well, it’s closed, but, you know, demolishing it would be immoral, a moral issue for a lot of the community members who went there. You know, the senior citizens, the 65 and over who went there, you know, as as elementary school kids.

So it’s from a standpoint of like politics, it’s not that difficult to the sell. That’s like this is important to to the fabric of this community. And I’m going to do everything I can to see that this is turned into something that becomes an asset for this community.

David Martin: How hard is it to take a downtown that’s essentially empty or partially empty, and convince people to come downtown? When they have alternatives, they can go to the big box store down the street, they can shop online. And how do you justify that expense as, as as a government?

Gabriel Peña: It’s tough. I mean, it’s I think people have to understand what they’re putting their money towards. You know, they have to understand.

David Martin: This historic building means something.

Gabriel Peña: We see the, you know, the by small Saturday. Now, and that ethos of invest your money in this in this small downtown. It goes further. It creates jobs in downtown. It doesn’t just, you know, get lost in the morass that is Amazon. Like, okay, even though they are sponsoring our our, our show here. It’s, you know, these rural communities, this is this is they depend on these dollars.

I travel around the state a lot. Going to different meetings and trying to to help communities generate buy in, you know, Williamson. Oceana. Logan. Madison. These areas that are trying to revitalize their downtowns. And every time I go to these downtowns where even if I’m just buying a few candy bars more than I need in the gas station, I’m trying to buy lunch, buy something.

David Martin: But my lunch at the little cafe in downtown Madison a couple of times. Yeah.

Gabriel Peña: Dump some money in these places because, like, this is what’s going to help keep these businesses around. And again, hopefully creating some sort of, some positive momentum, a positive feedback loop that they can support. A worker who wants to open their own restaurant and they can go somewhere else downtown, or even if they start with a food truck.

David Martin: Is it money well spent?

Gabriel Peña: I think so, I think so, because it’s like we’re trying to let these people know that they’re not forgotten. Yeah, that we we still see value in the work that they’re doing and what they’re bringing to the table, especially in these rural communities that have suffered so much.

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David Martin: So here we go. This is our good government show questionnaire. We ask everyone this of every elected official we talked to to try to get their feeling on what they really think about government. Okay. How long have you been on the city council?

Gabriel Peña: This is my second term, four year term. So I’m going on six years now.

David Martin: Six years in six years. What have you learned to define good government?

Gabriel Peña: What? I, to define good government.

David Martin: Well, it’s that easy question we want.

Gabriel Peña: Yeah, we we are representatives of the people, and we want to hear your thoughts. We have meetings. We have two meetings a month, the first and third Thursday of the month. And generally there are about five people that show up now. We’re also there in West Virginia, population 2800. You know, and when we do zoom, you know, we allow our meetings to be, broadcast via zoom.

But still, whenever we say there’s a trail going in or we envision a trail going in over here, it’s only then that we talk about a specific neighborhood that someone shows up. We are we are talk. We have been talking about these things. We are talking about these things. We want you all to be part of these conversations, not just when you’re upset about something.

We’d like to hear your feedback. So in my opinion, you know, good government is really facilitating a diverse and open conversation within the community where we’re getting lots of viewpoints and lots of lots of feedback on the way Council or our, you know, local governing body are thinking about these things.

David Martin: If people aren’t getting good government, if they don’t like what they see, what should they do?

Gabriel Peña: Well, first, you know, raise your voice. Second, run for office.

David Martin: Is that what I got you?

Gabriel Peña: It, sorta.

David Martin: Yeah. Sorta. Sorta. There. Seems like there’s more to that story.

Gabriel Peña: Well, I just I, I worked for the county for the Fayette County Commission for, since starting in 2014, and I ran for office in 2019. Because of all the things that I learned about the way Fayetteville could be doing things a little bit more effectively, accessing federal funding, accessing state funding, just how they could be, taking advantage of the assets they have in a more effective way.

And I feel the same way about our, our Fayette County Commission currently. And we’ll get there. Okay. We’ll start with town council first.

David Martin: All right. The good government show is the voice of public service. What drew you to public service?

Gabriel Peña: I just know that I had a knack for finding for finding funding, whether it be philanthropic, state or federal. And that that was key to these rural southern West Virginia communities, particularly Fayetteville, to be able to to build the kind of place where people would want to stay, Fayetteville is kind of the, exception to the rule where it feels like in southern west.

I say it feels like I know in West Virginia we are losing population. But Fayetteville, with everything we have to offer, our dining destination, our outdoor recreation amenities are out there, outdoor recreation infrastructure. People are coming to this community and want to be here and want to stay there rather, but we have work to do to make sure that it’s can continues to be a place that not only fosters, like civic engagement.

And people, local people are able to take advantage of the outdoor recreation assets, but also a place where, you know, it’s quiet and quaint and a place people want to raise their family.

David Martin: Who inspires you? Do you have a political hero?

Gabriel Peña: Do I have a political hero? I think I just had some some great leaders at the local level. One of our county commissioners, Matt Wender, you know, just took me under his wing. Yeah, took me to a lot of community meetings, when people were mad and when they were mad at the county commission. Yeah.

And he stood up there and he took it, and he, he, he owned some of the mistakes that they may have made. And.

David Martin: You still said I want to do that. Well, he.

Gabriel Peña: Just came out on top. He came out better. It’s like, you know, people appreciated that he was honest about, you know, this is the position of the county commission. This is my position. And I understand that you’re upset about it, but this is why it’s important to me. And then, you know, school consolidation was that was the issue.

David Martin: You know, that’s the contentious issue, very contentious.

Gabriel Peña: But then going and advocating for the school to stay open and why it made sense for the school to close and seeing him get hammered, and still coming out on top, able to shake hands and look like constituent and I, I just thought that was important and it was something that I aspire to.

David Martin: Six years on city council, what have you learned about government you wish other people knew about government?

Gabriel Peña: Oh man, I so much yeah, a lot. But also it’s just the accessibility of your I don’t know, you know, I’m I’m available if you have an issue, call me. And I’d love to talk about it. And I want to see people engage in these conversations.

David Martin: There’s so much you’re able to get out of the grocery store or the hardware store.

Gabriel Peña: It can. There are times when it doesn’t. My my kids, they roll their eyes. They know when whenever they go with me, anywhere. There’s a chance they tell me ahead of time.

David Martin: Dad, can we go?

Gabriel Peña: Exactly. Yeah, but. But I really do enjoy talking to people about issues that, you know, that are important to them. And I might not, you know, there are there are certain issues within the council, within town council that I really am passionate about redevelopment, recreational infrastructure development, engaging our young folks. But I’m not as interested in in the street maintenance.

I know it’s important. I’m not as I know it’s important stormwater management that has become important to me more recently. Yes, but these were committees that I, I wasn’t on. They put me on things initially with council. They put me on dilapidated buildings and planning and zoning and I’m good at those things. Okay. But then whenever we had to start switching and I had to go to other areas and learn about stormwater management and stormwater.

David Martin: Infrastructure like the sanitation Day said, a couple of years, right?

Gabriel Peña: People that are that are, that are, you know, passionate about that and have, you know, more experience with those. And they’ll come to me and talk to me about, hey, you know, your stormwater management, project is coming through my property in this way. Here are my concerns here. My thoughts. Love to hear it. Let’s talk more about it.

David Martin: What’s the best part about being a city councilman in Fayetteville?

Gabriel Peña: The best part? Well, it’s a small town, and, Yeah, I it’s a double edged sword, like you said. I go to the grocery store and somebody. I have no idea who they are, and they come up to me, Mr. Pena.

David Martin: And so this is the hardest part of the job.

Gabriel Peña: That’s what it’s both I it’s it’s the hardest and it’s, you know, because sometimes they do come up to with questions that I don’t have an answer to. And I need to let you know that I don’t have an answer to that question, but I will look into it. And that’s hard at times. It’s like, you’re right, I should be paying attention to this.

And it’s a bit of a, you know, it’s a humbling moment. So being humbled by constituents can be difficult for sure.

David Martin: Did you always see yourself getting into public service? No no.

Gabriel Peña: No.

David Martin: No no. You were at president your senior class. Nothing like that.

Gabriel Peña: I was a national honor society for a second, but,

David Martin: But I see, I see you did your homework.

Gabriel Peña: I mean, I was a good student. I was always a good student.

David Martin: Okay?

Gabriel Peña: But, you know, it favor West Virginia, you know, home of America’s best whitewater. A lot of the folks there, the guiding community, the river community during the summertime, they guide on the on the new river come fall, they got on the golly river. And then they head out west come winter to go to to Alta, to copper, you know, all these outstanding rec locations.

And I was planning to go, you know, and do this thing summertime and say the winter over in Colorado, it’s going to be great. But then it kind of dawned on me, it’s like all these people are leaving and there’s nobody here to speak up for the access to outdoor recreation right in downtown Fayetteville. And if there’s not anybody here that’s trying to articulate the things that are important to the outdoor recreation community, then it’s not going to happen.

And so if you can, you can run around and try to go enjoy the cool places, or you can stay here and make this a cool place. That was really, the dichotomy in my mind.

David Martin: We haven’t really talked about this, but you are, Fayetteville, West Virginia, is borders. The new River Gorge, the nation’s newest national park.

Gabriel Peña: Yes, sir.

David Martin: What do you do for fun in the park? Do you get out? Do you. Are you a are you a raft guy? Are you a whitewater guy? I do.

Gabriel Peña: I, I enjoy the river immensely. Now a lot of folks enjoy it because it’s like high intensity. And, you know, you can run the river anywhere from -two feet to, you know, 14, 15ft. My claim to fame is I went down to down, the new River Gorge on a boogie board at ten feet. And I was beat.

By the end of the day, I was running from rapids, not going through them.

David Martin: On a boogie board.

Gabriel Peña: Boogie board?

David Martin: It’s called a rip board. Let’s stop right here for a moment. What made you think this was a good idea?

Gabriel Peña: Well, I, as a river guide, I was, you know, was on the river for 4 or 5 days a week. I knew the I know the rapids, I know the currents. I know where they go. And for, you know, river boarding in general, whether it’s river surfing or, you know, getting on a boogie board and going down, it’s still a thing.

But there was a point in time there where it was a big thing. All right. It was like, oh, yeah, you know, I saw all sorts.

David Martin: Of idea that was a thing.

Gabriel Peña: We saw us when stand up paddle boards started becoming real popular, right? That’s when it was like, well, let’s see who we can take a stand up paddle board down the new River Gorge. And I was like, well, I think I can take a boogie board down the river gorge. And some folks still do it on the golly River.

You know, it’s definitely intense. Okay.

David Martin: Right. Yeah, I would think.

Gabriel Peña: But it’s also doable if you know where the currents are going and you know what to avoid.

David Martin: Through the rapids, over the drops, you.

Gabriel Peña: Really do punch right through them on a boogie board. Whereas, yeah, I bet a raft kind of like, you know, you hit the you hit the wave and you get the nice big hits. But but all that being said, my, now that I have two daughters and I’m a little older, one of my favorite things to do when the water is low and slow.

David Martin: Yes.

Gabriel Peña: Just, enjoy pulling over, looking at the rapids. All right. Maybe cast a line.

David Martin: Okay.

Gabriel Peña: Sit on a rock for a while, warm up. And just just enjoy the river and just being out there in the wilderness.

David Martin: Well, like I said, I been to the new River Gorge. I did the drive tour, and I took a little hike it, and I did the thing, and it’s it’s impressive. It’s great. It’s beautiful. And it’s a and it’s a great use of coal country to turn into something else. Yeah. So this is a good government show. We always had another good government project.

Tell me about something that you’ve done. And we were talking about, you know, downtown revitalization that you really proud of.

Gabriel Peña: The coal communities of Montgomery and Smithers have really, really struggled. We have a lot of work to do still in these areas. But one of the areas where I’ve been able to help them out, they had a vision for a trail. It’s not built yet, but they had a vision that connected these two communities. Historically. They they were adversarial.

You know, if Montgomery’s got it, Smithers wants it, Smithers wants it. Montgomery can’t have it. Tyler. And it’s, when WVU tech, which was located in Montgomery for 125 years, left, and relocated to Beckley, West Virginia, Montgomery and Smithers had to figure out ways to work together, and one of the projects that, again, that Howard articulated to me before all that went down was that trail.

And so I was able to contact, the office of, Sensible Development and the EPA and get a mini grant for planning initiative, where they got together as community members and envisioned what this trail would look like. And how, it could tie the community together, how we could tear down some dilapidated buildings around the proposed trail area.

And so we’ve been able to, to amass some brownfields funding, some arc planning monies to really articulate and plan out this trail. And in 2022, I want to say the city of Smithers and Montgomery together were able to get a $4.2 million congressional earmark to build this trail system. So it’s a little ways off still, but it is something that really is going to help them capitalize on their natural amenities because the trail follow us by the Canal River.

And it’s also, you know, a corridor that is going to help tie people to downtown Smithers. And again, help these people take advantage of the outdoor recreation economy and revitalize their community. We got a lot of work to do still, but that’s an area where they really.

David Martin: That does sound like a good use of government dollars.

Gabriel Peña: They need they need some an influx of life, spark revitalization. That feels like this trail system, the River City Trail.

David Martin: Yep.

Gabriel Peña: Could really help bring some more life to these communities. Fayetteville needs help, but not in the same way. Montgomery Smithers need help. These areas have really been hard hit.

David Martin: Well, you must be a bit of an example because with, you know, the new River Gorge National Park opening that it’s it’s changed. Fayetteville and other communities must be looking to you to say, oh, that’s how they did it.

Gabriel Peña: Well, Fayetteville.

David Martin: Right.

Gabriel Peña: It’s always it’s always had people coming through again just because it’s right there on the rim of the gorge. It’s it’s it’s like right smack in the epicenter of new river country whitewater climbing, listening, birding, biking, hiking. Montgomery mother can’t say the same thing because they’re they’re a little further away. And so we’re.

David Martin: Going to build a trail. We’re going to revitalize the downtown. And we’re going to do it regionally.

Gabriel Peña: We’re going to try to connect that trail to the downtown entrepreneurs that are trying to give it a go in Montgomery, where we’ve been trying to tear down the bad, dilapidated buildings and save the historic ones.

David Martin: Well, this is a problem across the across the nation, and I’m sure especially hard hit in coal communities, is, you know, rebuilding a downtown that once was and, needs help. So glad to see that you’re on top of it. Gabe. Panya, a city councilman from Fayetteville, West Virginia. Thanks for talking downtown revitalization.

Gabriel Peña: Thank you. Dave.

David Martin: After you get done with this episode, hear more good government stories with our friends at How to Really Run a City for mayors. Kasim Reed of Atlanta and Michael Nutter of Philadelphia, and their co-host, journalist and author Larry Platt, talk with guests and other mayors about how to really get stuff done in cities around the nation. Check them out where you’re listening now or through their nonprofit news site, The Philadelphia Citizen.

Dot org slash podcasts.

What’s so good to hear is there’s activity. People like Fayetteville, West Virginia Councilman Gabe Penny is just one of the government leaders doing something. He started it in his town. But through his community, he’s branching out and working with other cities in what was coal country. A lot of change needs to happen, and Gabe Pena is working on it, and that’s good government.

Well, that’s our show. Please like us and share this with your friends and our viewers right here. We’re listening. And check out our website. Good government show.com for extras. Help us keep telling stories of good government and action everywhere. Join us again for another episode right here. I’m Dave Martin and this is the Good Government show.

The Good Government show is a Valley Park production. Jim Ludlow, Dave Martin, that’s me and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our show is edited and produced by Jason Stershic. Please subscribe then share and like us and reviews. That’s the best way to make sure we’re able to keep telling these stories of our government working for all of us.

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**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.