Department of Agriculture, it’s more than Farms

00:00:00:01 – 00:00:03:04
David Martin
This is the good government show.

00:00:03:08 – 00:00:35:26
Basil Gooden
Oh, we do a lot at USDA and certainly with USDA rural development, USDA touches almost every aspect of our lives across the country here in the United States. But also we do a lot, abroad as well. We pride ourselves of trying to provide the first rung on the economic ladder. Certainly in rural America, there are a lot of challenges that, you know, sometimes go unaddressed.

00:00:35:30 – 00:01:01:57
Basil Gooden
Now, I always say government cannot address everything and they shouldn’t address everything. He said, just bring a notebook and I’ll tell you how politics work. I’ll tell you how things get done. In the government. And government makes a difference in your life day in and day out.

00:01:02:02 – 00:01:18:53
David Martin
Today’s guest says the U.S. Department of Agriculture is one of the most nonpartizan departments in federal government. When you listen to him, you know he just might be right. Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m Dave Martin. First, help us share the message of good government by liking us and showing us where we are. On your favorite social media.

00:01:18:58 – 00:01:37:52
David Martin
Make sure reviews and send our show everywhere. We all need to talk about good government. We are all good at it. The former undersecretary for Rural Development for the Department of Agriculture is currently a fellow, one of the government experts at the National Academy of Public Administration. He’s the former secretary of Agriculture and Forestry for the Commonwealth of Virginia.

00:01:38:07 – 00:01:55:33
David Martin
And he’s a Black Angus cattle farmer. You’ll hear about that. Housing may not be the first thing that comes to mind when you think about the Department of Agriculture, but as Basil will explain, they help Americans not only find a house, but stay in their house. The USDA also provides loans and guarantees that help businesses and communities thrive.

00:01:55:46 – 00:02:17:07
David Martin
See, it’s not just farming they deal with. And he says when he cut jobs at a federal agency, it’s not just the loss of one job, but to the impact of losing the experience and the overall effect it can have on all of us. Coming up, Basil Gooden, former USDA undersecretary. And coming up, a little hope for the future.

00:02:17:12 – 00:02:43:43
David Martin
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00:02:43:57 – 00:03:08:18
David Martin
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00:03:08:23 – 00:03:29:51
David Martin
Let Hello Nation lift you up and lead the conversation. Visit Hello nation.com to learn more. Once you wrap up this episode of The Good Government Show, give a listen to our friends over at Good News for lefties. This daily podcast highlights news stories that show there’s more good news out there. Other people in government are really trying to do the right thing.

00:03:30:03 – 00:03:46:23
David Martin
That’s good news for lefties. Listen, we’re listening now. Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m happy to have with me Basil Gooden. He’s a former undersecretary of agriculture for rural development for the USDA, U.S. Department of Agriculture. Welcome to the show.

00:03:46:23 – 00:03:48:02
Basil Gooden
Thanks. Thank you so much for having me.

00:03:48:04 – 00:04:00:37
David Martin
Good to have you. So we are here at the National Academy of Public Administration. You’ve been a fellow for eight years. Just briefly, what’s your work do with the National Academy of Public Administration? What do you do here?

00:04:00:43 – 00:04:26:17
Basil Gooden
Well, again, thanks for this opportunity. Just to talk a little bit about what I’ve done, about what good government does and what public administrators do. Here at Napa, we actually look at issues, challenges that face municipalities, local government, academics, and we really try to provide some solutions. And really we are able to get together a group of experts to really address some of the concerns.

00:04:26:22 – 00:04:39:56
Basil Gooden
We see that’s impacting the field of public administration. So I’m honored to be a part of Napa as a fellow and, honored to try to provide some insight into some of the issues, impact in public administration.

00:04:39:57 – 00:04:41:52
David Martin
So you try to make good government, better government.

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Basil Gooden
We do. Absolutely. We do it every day. That’s what, keeps us, focused and engaged.

00:04:48:15 – 00:05:08:59
David Martin
Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about your history. I know you had a long history. First in state government in Virginia and then with the federal government. Let’s talk about the Department of Agriculture, the USDA. They have a huge profile that a lot of people don’t know about. There’s I think somewhere I read and correct me on this, USDA houses more people than any other department in America.

00:05:09:04 – 00:05:31:58
Basil Gooden
Oh, we do a lot at USDA and certainly with USDA rural development. USDA touches almost every aspect of our lives across the country here in the United States. But also we do a lot, abroad as well. And so, certainly, you know, a lot of times when people think about USDA, they’re thinking about food. They’re thinking about and certainly U.S. agriculture, agriculture, they thinking about farming.

00:05:32:00 – 00:05:37:15
Basil Gooden
I mean, and, I’m a proud farmer, rancher myself and so certainly understand people.

00:05:37:16 – 00:05:38:51
David Martin
We’re going to get back to the AG.

00:05:38:55 – 00:05:59:36
Basil Gooden
I got a question. Well, certainly, we could certainly, talk about that. But agriculture touches so many aspects of our lives. I mean, whether it’s you know, food safety and nutrition, whether it’s really, you know, supporting farmers and ranchers or whether it’s really talking about housing, and community economic development. And that’s what rural development really focused on.

00:05:59:36 – 00:06:20:15
Basil Gooden
The latter was really looking at rural America, understanding that not everybody in rural America will be farmers or ranchers, but we have a large a larger portion of the the population out in rural America. They’re not farmers and ranchers. They are business owners. How do we support them, their, health care providers? How do we support them?

00:06:20:22 – 00:06:31:06
Basil Gooden
So USDA played a critical role, plays a critical role in addressing the needs in rural America, as well, outside of, farming and ranching as well.

00:06:31:08 – 00:06:48:15
David Martin
We on the show have talked with a lot of county commissioners from West Virginia, from Appalachia, and talked about some of the challenges of converting from, sort of a coal economy to a new economy. Just, I’m gather you had a hand in that. And let’s talk a little bit about rural Appalachia, what’s going on and how and how does USDA help?

00:06:48:18 – 00:06:48:46
David Martin
Sure.

00:06:48:47 – 00:07:13:03
Basil Gooden
Well, I’ll tell you what we do. We respect the cultures and the communities that we work in. And so certainly in Appalachia, there’s a huge, huge, propensity to, work in the, the mining industry. And certainly, coal country really provided a, a economic foundation provided for. Oh, well, yeah. Provided, a lot of, economic driver.

00:07:13:04 – 00:07:50:15
Basil Gooden
I mean, it just drove that, that region for quite some time, as that industry faces challenges and no longer provides those type of jobs. Now, I think it’s incumbent on government and other entities to really look at how can we provide economic opportunities in Appalachia. And so we work with these localities, municipalities, really looking at infrastructure, looking at education, looking at really, health care is a big issue out there, but looking at what opportunities exist, I really believe that each area, each community, they have their own solutions.

00:07:50:15 – 00:08:19:18
Basil Gooden
They have solutions that can drive these areas. And so that’s what we they’re we’re they’re support. We don’t we don’t go in there telling what these areas or these organizations individuals should do or need to do. We work with them to support their vision and making their communities what they envision that for the future. So, we’ve we’ve played a tremendous role in Appalachia, West Virginia and southern Virginia, southwest Virginia, Kentucky, a lot of housing.

00:08:19:18 – 00:08:30:21
Basil Gooden
And your initial question was around housing and certainly a USDA rural development of the largest, component of our portfolio was housing. And which is something you.

00:08:30:21 – 00:08:33:56
David Martin
Never expect out of the USDA. It was not housing and urban development. There.

00:08:34:09 – 00:08:36:58
Basil Gooden
Certainly certainly. No, absolutely. When people.

00:08:36:58 – 00:08:46:36
David Martin
You know, are you building houses, are you supporting people in their houses? Are you what are you giving them an opportunity to buy a house, you know, how does that all work? We really or check all of the above.

00:08:46:38 – 00:09:08:25
Basil Gooden
Oh yeah. It’s sort of all the above. We don’t go out to actually build houses, but we do provide financing, okay. And actually we provide direct loans to individuals that need mortgages to be able to buy homes. But we also, a large component of that is actually the loan guarantee, where we actually guarantee the loan that’s provided by some other financial institution.

00:09:08:37 – 00:09:34:09
Basil Gooden
And so, but it’s it’s government backed loans that go directly to individuals. And so that is a large component of what we do. And, David, what I really we, we pride ourselves on is actually reaching a lot of individuals that wouldn’t have anywhere else to go for a loan. So we pride ourselves of trying to provide the first wrong on the economic ladder.

00:09:34:20 – 00:09:46:36
Basil Gooden
Okay. So they can, you know, recognize that housing, is so instrumental, instrumental in developing wealth, in communities and in families and what you see, I mean, when you can develop.

00:09:46:36 – 00:09:51:34
David Martin
And they’re invested in the community, they’re investing in their, their school, their neighborhood, their community. Right.

00:09:51:34 – 00:10:17:54
Basil Gooden
Absolutely, absolutely. Homeownership does so much to communities. I mean, it improves the health, economic well-being, the educational levels as well. But when we talk about housing, USDA rural development also is in the multifamily housing. We provide rental, housing as well. So we fund that and actually provide rental assistance as well, to help offset if people aren’t able to afford that.

00:10:17:58 – 00:10:50:33
Basil Gooden
We recognize that. Again, you know, people face challenges. And and certainly in rural America, there are a lot of challenges that, you know, sometimes go unaddressed. And and so we recognize that there are some needs out there in rural America that we feel that good government should help address some of these needs. Now, I always say government cannot address everything and they shouldn’t address everything, but there are investments in people and in communities that government should be a part of.

00:10:50:33 – 00:11:24:02
Basil Gooden
Because if it was not for government investing in that, the private sector would not invest at all. And we could talk more about that, that a lot of the, investments in the portfolio of USDA Rural Development. And really and we’d like to say again, to end rural development, we have a portfolio with a purpose. It is really purposeful in really trying to sustain rural America, whether it’s infrastructure, hospitals, and if we did not make that initial investment, private capital would not invest in a lot of these projects that that, we fund it.

00:11:24:02 – 00:11:29:42
David Martin
So because it’s not profitable, because people are flocking to because.

00:11:29:42 – 00:11:55:39
Basil Gooden
Yeah. Because again, again, oftentimes it’s not profitable, that the math just doesn’t work because, you don’t have the, economy of scale. Okay. A lot of these rural areas. And so, a lot of times, you know, you have to rely on gap funding, from the government, whether state, government, West Virginia or in Virginia or wherever.

00:11:55:44 – 00:12:04:44
Basil Gooden
But oftentimes the federal government has to come in and provide that gap funding, to make these projects work, whether it’s, you know, is.

00:12:04:44 – 00:12:07:37
David Martin
This money well spent?

00:12:07:42 – 00:12:08:14
David Martin
A lot of money.

00:12:08:19 – 00:12:32:16
Basil Gooden
Oh, yeah. No. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. So the, the the, processes that we go through to not only make these awards or to, to provide this money is so extensive. And, I mean, I’ll be honest with you, I wish the process was a lot simpler. I wish we could say this is a good project. Yeah, we have to, but I mean, we have involvement from, you know, congressional offices.

00:12:32:16 – 00:12:56:29
Basil Gooden
I mean, again, so it’s very, very, you have a lot of oversight in any distribution or expenditure of funds. It is it’s very, very, tedious. But not only once those funds are awarded, then the oversight to make sure that that money is spent the way it is intended to be spent, that is crucial. And that takes a lot of work as well.

00:12:56:29 – 00:13:08:28
Basil Gooden
So I’d like to say, yes, that money is well spent. These investments are again working with state governments, localities, these things, these investments are making a difference in the lives of people in rural America.

00:13:08:32 – 00:13:26:12
David Martin
So I’m going to I’m going to play devil’s advocate, I guess, a little bit for you. Sure. You’re looking at some of these communities where, you know, the industry that was there that sustain is gone, especially in coal country. Sure. And it’s not coming back. Why would you prop up a community that was built around an industry that’s no longer there?

00:13:26:17 – 00:13:26:43
David Martin
What can.

00:13:26:43 – 00:13:52:55
Basil Gooden
You do? Excellent question. I think one of the hardest decisions that you have to make is when do you decide not to invest in a, a dying communities and these things, I mean, again, making a decision like that, I mean, it takes critical analysis, working with, again, the people on the ground because you want to try to save almost every community, but you realize you just can’t do that with the finite resources that we have.

00:13:52:59 – 00:14:28:48
Basil Gooden
And certainly, you know, recognizing being a good steward of, of, funding and things like that, you know, you just can’t fund everything. So you do have to make decisions that you, you know, we can’t invest in this. I mean, again, and, and when we do that, we also try to provide other opportunities, either educational opportunities for, people in the community to learn another skill or another trade to leave that, not only is, is is that prominent in coal country, but also in, in rural.

00:14:28:49 – 00:14:29:45
David Martin
America through to make.

00:14:29:45 – 00:14:33:59
Basil Gooden
Sure you got a lot of textile companies down south to down south throughout.

00:14:34:01 – 00:14:34:40
David Martin
Carolinas.

00:14:34:40 – 00:15:12:04
Basil Gooden
Right. Absolutely. Where again, the textile industry I mean, just they that was the economic driver. But what do you try to do is to make sure that there are other opportunities, for people outside of these industries. So sometimes we don’t we don’t go back and invest in either coal country or textile. We said, hey, but here’s another driver, entrepreneurship, whether you know, you have a business, you know, you know, some type of I.T or something, you know, try to help an individual understand, you know, that they have skills and talents and they could do a whole lot outside of coal.

00:15:12:08 – 00:15:26:31
David Martin
Well, I spoke with, tourism director from County in Virginia, and they were talking about tourism being a big driver. It’s not going to be the same as coal, but. Right. That’s certainly a growth industry, especially in all areas around new River Gorge in West Virginia.

00:15:26:31 – 00:15:39:12
Basil Gooden
Absolutely. I mean, because I mean, again, I just write so much beautiful stuff out in these areas. I mean, again, natural resources out in these areas, I mean, tremendous I mean, just so much to do.

00:15:39:13 – 00:15:41:09
David Martin
Bike trails, tire.

00:15:41:14 – 00:15:43:33
Basil Gooden
Absolutely. I mean, over in.

00:15:43:33 – 00:15:46:18
David Martin
This, I’ll ask you what was like I said, you are an ATV, so.

00:15:46:18 – 00:15:58:28
Basil Gooden
Oh, this weekend, I mean, so this weekend I was cutting the fence line up on my farm. And so. All right. So, I was doing it for work, though, and, so a little bit. Yes,

00:15:58:33 – 00:16:16:45
David Martin
Work, but it wasn’t that that, that where I. Yeah. Don’t don’t forget about the cattle. Yeah, but it sounds like, you know, for you and I spoke with one of your, your other, former colleagues, Cindy, actually, who was a guest on the show from us. Oh, yes. Yeah. Is, this is a department of the federal government whose sole purpose is to help people.

00:16:16:52 – 00:16:18:20
Basil Gooden
Yes, absolutely.

00:16:18:20 – 00:16:24:16
David Martin
Help people with health, help people with food, help people with nutrition. Help people with safety. Help people. Well, yes. With housing.

00:16:24:16 – 00:16:49:54
Basil Gooden
Absolutely, absolutely. And so that’s why when you talk to people in USDA, and the thing that I really appreciate about USDA, it’s one of the least partizan, I mean, you have support from both Republicans, Democrats, independents, because, again, you recognize that you’re actually doing such good stuff for people in all congressional districts. I mean, so.

00:16:49:57 – 00:16:51:09
David Martin
This sounds like good government.

00:16:51:14 – 00:17:13:11
Basil Gooden
And said, oh, absolutely. You leave that. You leave all the politics out of this. I mean, again, you, you know, you it’s not mostly you try to be as not. Yeah, nonpartisan as possible and and really just address the needs. Amy. So you mentioned Cindy, actually, I mean, out in Iowa, she she’s done tremendous things that, with the rural communities of Iowa.

00:17:13:16 – 00:17:42:40
Basil Gooden
But you see people at USDA, they love this work because they can see the difference that they make. They are making on the ground, whether it’s putting people in home safe, affordable homes or whether it’s providing health care. I mean, reopening hospitals. Now, I tell you that the one of the things that really, really, I’m just so excited about was when we were able to open rural hospitals, we were out in, Tillman, Oklahoma, a hospital that actually had closed about five years ago.

00:17:42:49 – 00:17:52:28
Basil Gooden
We were able to provide funding, and now they’re reopening that rural hospital, the same thing up in, rugby, North Dakota. We we.

00:17:52:28 – 00:17:54:11
David Martin
Geographic center of North America.

00:17:54:16 – 00:17:56:06
Basil Gooden
Absolutely. That’s how I’m able to.

00:17:56:06 – 00:17:58:13
David Martin
Remember that I play rugby. That’s what I need to go.

00:17:58:19 – 00:18:05:20
Basil Gooden
Oh, is that right? And, that they used to. And the name of the other facility is, Heart of America, the Heart of America medical center.

00:18:05:23 – 00:18:05:45
David Martin
Okay.

00:18:05:45 – 00:18:22:32
Basil Gooden
But we were able to, open that as well. So when you reopen an institution in rural America, not only are you improving the health care, but you also are improving the economics of that community, education in that community and you attracting people to come to and stay in rural America.

00:18:22:32 – 00:18:25:29
David Martin
So are you concerned about some of these hospitals that are closing now?

00:18:25:30 – 00:18:53:01
Basil Gooden
Oh, very concerned. I’m very concerned and very concerned about the big beautiful Bill. Actually, because we really feel that that’s going to, negatively impact a lot of the rural hospitals and rural medical, centers as well. And so, again, recognizing that people in rural America should have access to the same quality health care as anybody else in these metropolitan areas.

00:18:53:06 – 00:19:07:40
Basil Gooden
That is very, very concerning to to us who really care about these, issues in rural America. So health care is a big issue. And, so I’m very concerned about what’s going to happen going forward.

00:19:07:42 – 00:19:21:41
David Martin
I read a little bit about you before we got to talking. And one of the things that you did in your role at the USDA for Rural Development was you changed a little bit the workforce. You brought more workers in to provide more service? Yes. Could you explain that?

00:19:21:41 – 00:19:45:20
Basil Gooden
Oh, yes. No, absolutely. And, I had the advantage of actually working at USDA, in the Obama administration. I was a state director for the state of Virginia. And when we left USDA rule development in 2016, USDA rule development had about 6200 people across the country, 6200, not.

00:19:45:20 – 00:19:46:21
David Martin
All in Washington, not.

00:19:46:21 – 00:19:54:59
Basil Gooden
Only in Washington, no. And the majority of those people actually work in the state. And that’s what I mean. Again, that’s what we really tried to focus on, having more.

00:19:54:59 – 00:19:56:43
David Martin
People, all 50 states in.

00:19:56:43 – 00:20:03:37
Basil Gooden
All 50 states and even some territories, U.S. territories. We also work in the Virgin Islands. We work in Puerto Rico.

00:20:03:50 – 00:20:06:19
David Martin
You better. You should probably get out of the Virgin Islands to see how that’s going.

00:20:06:19 – 00:20:09:12
Basil Gooden
Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I, I need to yeah, yeah.

00:20:09:12 – 00:20:10:20
David Martin
So check that out.

00:20:10:25 – 00:20:25:59
Basil Gooden
Check that out. And, but when we left in 2016, we had 6200 people when we came. Well, when it came back with the Biden administration in 2021, rule development was down to 4127 people. Okay.

00:20:26:11 – 00:20:28:48
David Martin
How did that how did that affect your ability to do the work?

00:20:28:53 – 00:20:37:25
Basil Gooden
Oh, it really hampered our ability to to, deliver the services that the people needed on the ground. And, and they so.

00:20:37:31 – 00:20:37:47
David Martin
Cut.

00:20:37:47 – 00:20:39:06
Basil Gooden
Jobs. Cut jobs.

00:20:39:08 – 00:20:40:47
David Martin
And you delivered less services.

00:20:40:47 – 00:20:42:10
Basil Gooden
Oh, yeah.

00:20:42:15 – 00:20:44:24
David Martin
And so what was that was the point? Oh, yeah.

00:20:44:24 – 00:21:04:44
Basil Gooden
No. And we just heard, I mean, avalanche of complaints. I mean, again, we just heard people in rural America saying, you know, where are the people? Because not only there was a reduction in the workforce, but also there was a restructuring where a more of these people reported to Washington, DC, then worked out out there on the ground.

00:21:04:56 – 00:21:32:58
Basil Gooden
Now, if you, as you know, rural America, the last thing that anybody in rural America want to hear is the coach. See, that’s the last thing. And so, we worked to restructure that. We worked and what we were able to do, we hired about 900 just just shy of a thousand more people when I was there as undersecretary, we just, you know, because we realized that we were not able to deliver the services that were needed that we were seeing.

00:21:32:58 – 00:21:56:28
Basil Gooden
So we hired and unfortunately, I mean, when we last in January, then, then there was a reduction. A lot of those people were let go. And, in talking to the people and rule development here, a couple of weeks ago, there’s around about 2000 people, in rural development, are gone, are gone. And so, you know.

00:21:56:33 – 00:21:59:37
David Martin
So less people, less services, less help, this help.

00:21:59:42 – 00:22:21:41
Basil Gooden
And that’s not the direction we need to go in. I mean, when we’re talking about good government now and being in good government doesn’t mean having, just all we’re all all the, people that you, want. It really is about having people that are needed to provide the services that we’re obligated to provide. And so you can’t replace that human critical thinking.

00:22:21:52 – 00:22:45:02
Basil Gooden
You can’t, replace that with a, or these kiosks. We’re talking about having kiosks in a lot of these offices. And so I again, rural folks, they want to look you in the eye. They want to, you know, they want you to understand the issue that they’re trying to address. And, and so I’m very concerned about the direction that we’re going to go in, with this reduction.

00:22:45:09 – 00:23:09:46
Basil Gooden
But, again, nothing can replace, someone with the knowledge of working with country folks. And so again, that’s what we aim. We brought the best and the brightest folks in people from rural America. Now, is this the sad part about seeing these people leave? Because, the majority, the vast majority of people that we hired were from rural America, and they knew how to work in these communities.

00:23:09:46 – 00:23:12:49
Basil Gooden
They know these communities. And why would you get rid of these people?

00:23:12:49 – 00:23:27:23
David Martin
So it really is a cascading, you know, flow of, of bad that just keep it just continues. You cut people, you cut people who are from an area where they need to work, and they can’t help their neighbors. And it all goes south, right?

00:23:27:23 – 00:23:42:35
Basil Gooden
It does, it does. And then you just continue to see the trends that are negatively impacting rural America. I mean, again, when there are no jobs there, you’re not getting the services that you need. Then suddenly the young people will start to leave. I mean, they just continue to leave.

00:23:42:35 – 00:23:45:40
David Martin
And so we’ll give us it, give us a reason to to have hope. Give us some.

00:23:45:40 – 00:23:48:15
Basil Gooden
Oh, no. Oh. Because I mean, again, I you.

00:23:48:15 – 00:23:48:54
David Martin
Have a great job.

00:23:49:00 – 00:24:05:30
Basil Gooden
You have a lot of the best and the brightest people there. Still in rural America, people with great solutions, great ideas that can change the world. And so I just think, you know, just give them a little help, give them some investment, all right? And, let them know that they are a critical part of, of this country.

00:24:05:30 – 00:24:08:55
Basil Gooden
And so, I mean, I’m excited about rural America. I’m all in.

00:24:09:03 – 00:24:11:39
David Martin
Okay. America, you’re a cattle farmer. Let’s talk.

00:24:11:50 – 00:24:14:48
Basil Gooden
Cattle farmer. Oh, yeah. Black Angus, beef cattle.

00:24:14:53 – 00:24:16:34
David Martin
How did you get it? As a cattle for a business?

00:24:16:34 – 00:24:24:59
Basil Gooden
Well, I actually, but my, my father, my father was an educator. He was a, school principal. But he, he you did.

00:24:24:59 – 00:24:25:25
David Martin
Your homework.

00:24:25:26 – 00:24:45:04
Basil Gooden
At home? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And, but, my dad has has, three sons, and I think he wanted to make sure that he, taught us how to work and kept us busy. And so, we also used to raise hogs as well, and, but we got out of that. Hogs require a lot of attention, and, but cattle.

00:24:45:04 – 00:24:45:53
David Martin
Don’t act as cattle.

00:24:45:56 – 00:25:05:18
Basil Gooden
Now, there’s not as much they can. They can, fend for themselves a lot. And, but we raise, black Angus beef cattle in Buckingham County, Virginia. Is that Buckingham? Kind of a genius. The geographic center of the state of Virginia. And, to again, it’s just a cow calf operation. We how many here? You know, it’s less than 100.

00:25:05:18 – 00:25:27:39
Basil Gooden
We have less than 100 here to can be honest with you, we about 48 mama cows. And so, so when you have calves, it really it’s it is is really something that I like to do. And now the cattle market is, is up. And for the first time in a while, we, actually, able to cover a lot of the costs of operating the farm.

00:25:27:39 – 00:25:34:08
Basil Gooden
And so, I just love being out there in the country, not with the nature and my my fellow citizens.

00:25:34:13 – 00:25:41:02
David Martin
How does being a cattle farmer and, you know, I know that your, I guess you you work this with your brothers and sisters. You’re all together.

00:25:41:03 – 00:25:49:32
Basil Gooden
This. Sure. So I think it’s primarily me. They okay? Yeah, they they give direction and guidance, but I think the work part falls to me.

00:25:49:36 – 00:25:52:10
David Martin
All right. Does it help in your in your work?

00:25:52:10 – 00:25:54:58
Basil Gooden
You know, for solutely I think.

00:25:55:03 – 00:25:55:38
David Martin
Community.

00:25:55:42 – 00:26:24:39
Basil Gooden
Certainly being a, farmer you are exposed to ideas because one thing that farmers do and ranchers I mean, we talk to other farmers, other ranges, we see what’s going on in the market. We see what’s happening in rural, America. And so the feedback, the majority of the people that I work with, on my farm, because I have several, people that work with me and, and people who work in the community, we’re totally, different political views, totally different.

00:26:24:39 – 00:26:47:59
Basil Gooden
But I love the conversations. They love the conversation. We could talk about anything, any political issue. It’s always great to hear their side of the issue. And I always enjoy giving my side of the issue as well. So, and it helps, humanize, you know, that that, you know, again, we’re not political enemies at all. We’re friends because there’s nothing that I wouldn’t do with for my neighbors.

00:26:48:04 – 00:27:10:13
Basil Gooden
And there’s, I mean, I’ll give you a quick example. I’ll be back in, July of 2019. There was a, accident, a car actually, ran through the fence of, of of our farm. We have a, fence running along the roadside, and, and a car had an accident, and it was late at night, midnight or something of that nature.

00:27:10:18 – 00:27:25:01
Basil Gooden
And the sheriff’s called me and said, hey, you got to come to the farm because we don’t I don’t live on the farm. You got to come and, and fix this fence. And so it takes me about 45 minutes, actually, to get up to the farm. Well, I got, you know, truck and headed up to the farm.

00:27:25:08 – 00:27:52:43
Basil Gooden
By the time I got there, my neighbors had actually fixed that fence. I mean, and they were still there. I had about a yard full, about 20 there, 25 people. They came there first to check to make sure that nobody was hurt, but they had already patched that farm. Now, the thing that really, is important about this story is that the majority of the people that were there past midnight, they were all races, all colors, all political stripes.

00:27:52:50 – 00:28:13:27
Basil Gooden
Okay. They didn’t say whether you’re a Democrat, Republican, black, white or what. They just saw another farmer in NE and they came up and fix that fence. That’s the America, that’s America to me. That’s what I believe, that deep down we’re here to help each other. And so, I mean, I was just fortunate to see that happen, in real life.

00:28:13:41 – 00:28:24:13
Basil Gooden
So, yeah, I think being a farmer really benefits you able to see, the best of America, as a farmer. And so I really take pride in doing so.

00:28:24:18 – 00:28:29:16
David Martin
Wow. That’s that’s great. Yes, I’m sure that’s got fixed. I guess everyday mistakes that we did.

00:28:29:17 – 00:28:31:31
Basil Gooden
Absolutely, absolutely. Thanks a beer.

00:28:31:33 – 00:28:40:19
David Martin
All right. Well, that was that was the easy part. We could keep talking for quite some time but but I have to get to the hard part. Sure.

00:28:40:23 – 00:29:04:00
David Martin
The Good Government show is sponsored by our. That’s. Oh you are for our community. Get involved. We hear that all the time from government leaders. Our co-branded with your governments name and logo, your staff and the people you serve are connected and part of your community from any device your members provide reliable data and meaningful feedback. Ask a question like, do we want more parkland or better homeless services?

00:29:04:13 – 00:29:15:48
David Martin
More engaged conversations come through the our app. Visit our Co that’s ou rco.com and book a demonstration.

00:29:15:53 – 00:29:39:10
David Martin
After you get done with this episode, hear more good government stories with our friends at How to Really Run a City for mayors. Kasim Reed of Atlanta and Michael Nutter, a Philadelphia, and their co-host, journalist and author Larry Platt talk with guests and other mayors about how to really get stuff done in cities around the nation. Check them out where you’re listening now or through their nonprofit news site, The Philadelphia Citizen.

00:29:39:24 – 00:29:52:59
David Martin
Dot org slash podcasts. All right. We have a question there. I ask this of everyone who’s on the show. Sure. First question. Artist one yeah, define good governance.

00:29:53:04 – 00:30:13:14
Basil Gooden
Good government. Well, I think good government is when government is able to meet a need, as the community sees it. And so good government, I feel, is being able to deliver services to help people address concerns that, they are unable to address themselves.

00:30:13:29 – 00:30:22:41
David Martin
If people are frustrated with government at the state level, where you’ve worked in, at the federal level, where you’ve worked, you know, what should they do? You’ve worked at both of those levels. What should they do if they don’t like what they see in government?

00:30:22:52 – 00:30:43:49
Basil Gooden
Yes. I mean, the thing that I really appreciate haven’t worked at the state level and at the federal level, state government, you’re closer to the people and then even local governments, you are even closer to the people. I always tell people, if you have concerns, make your concerns known first. You know, certainly even at the local level, state level.

00:30:43:54 – 00:31:18:21
Basil Gooden
And certainly, I mean, if your federal government is not addressing your concerns, all the things that you see, needed, let your voice be heard. Or not only that, run for office or, you know, or or campaign against somebody who’s not addressing your concerns, but make sure you understand the issue. One thing I think, David, is that we hear a lot about how bad government is and that government, you know, isn’t doing X, Y and Z or, or even worse, that we don’t need government.

00:31:18:25 – 00:31:24:50
Basil Gooden
And, I think we need to do a lot to try to address and counter that narrative, because, you know, that.

00:31:24:50 – 00:31:26:17
David Martin
Narrative we’re trying to.

00:31:26:27 – 00:31:27:37
Basil Gooden
Create runs deep.

00:31:27:37 – 00:31:29:58
David Martin
And so we’re trying here, the government, you know.

00:31:29:58 – 00:31:41:47
Basil Gooden
Absolutely. And so that’s that’s a that’s a big issue. And you hear it that, you know, again, we don’t need government. But what we see government plays an important, part critical part in almost every aspect of your life.

00:31:41:52 – 00:31:43:15
David Martin
What do you do. Public service.

00:31:43:20 – 00:32:08:54
Basil Gooden
Well, I, yeah, one thing, growing up in a household where my parents were always civically engaged, I tell this story, about growing up in Southside Virginia again, is central Southside Virginia. Where? And again, I grew up, in, late 60s, early 70s. The country was going through, some turmoil, some, some, some things.

00:32:08:54 – 00:32:37:40
Basil Gooden
And Vietnam. Nixon well, you had Nixon and then, in Virginia, we had what was called, massive resistance to integration. People didn’t, you know, there were some political leaders who did not want blacks and whites to go to school together. And, I was young and, I mean, I wasn’t in school, but I knew the county adjacent to Buckingham is Prince Edward County, and they closed their schools and and anyway, there were, just some things that are going on.

00:32:37:45 – 00:33:01:33
Basil Gooden
And as a kid, I could see that there were a, a group of public people, officials who didn’t want blacks and whites to go to school together. I didn’t quite understand all that was going on, because, again, I was five, six, seven, you know, just sort of looking at that. But then I also saw that there were a group of people actually at the federal level.

00:33:01:44 – 00:33:29:27
Basil Gooden
And again, I didn’t know what to say to the feds. And so, they were a group of political people who wanted to include blacks and whites wanted blacks and whites to go to school together and here’s what I say is that I didn’t know exactly what was going on, but I knew there was a group of people who tried to exclude me from going to school, and I knew there was a group of people that that seemed to be good to wanted to try to include us.

00:33:29:36 – 00:34:02:10
Basil Gooden
Right. And what I tell is, is that a quote by Maya Angelou was that, you know, people will forget what you say, people will forget what you do, but they will always remember how you made them feel. And I knew that these people who wanted to be inclusive made me feel a lot different. And again, I didn’t know all what all that was about, but I just knew that there were some people who were for government that wanted to try to do good by me and my community, and I’m like, wow, that’s neat.

00:34:02:11 – 00:34:25:12
Basil Gooden
And so when I went to college, I, I actually I took a political science course. We had a professor that actually, professor said, don’t even bring your textbooks. He was a retired. He used he was a congressman. And he also, was also, worked he was also in the Virginia House of delegates and, he said, don’t even bring your, textbooks.

00:34:25:12 – 00:34:54:20
Basil Gooden
He said, just bring a notebook and I’ll tell you how politics work. I’ll tell you how things get done. Okay. In the government. And he just made it sound so fascinating. And so, you know, when you see, you know, again, first hand that government can make you feel included. And then when you hear how government, can, can make some things happen for you in your communities, then I said, you know, I always kind of wanted to be where these decisions are being made.

00:34:54:20 – 00:35:15:47
Basil Gooden
I want to be close. You know, governor, Wilder, he was a former governor of Virginia, the first elected, black governor in the United States. Right? Governor Wilder, he always would say he’s like, I didn’t just want my slice of the American pie. He would always say, I would be. I want to have my hand on the knife.

00:35:15:47 – 00:35:19:36
Basil Gooden
That’s cutting the pie. And. Okay. And so, so you.

00:35:19:36 – 00:35:20:11
David Martin
Grab the knife.

00:35:20:20 – 00:35:23:08
Basil Gooden
Yes, I agree, every knife and try to be close to the decision maker.

00:35:23:13 – 00:35:25:25
David Martin
Do you have a political hero who inspires you?

00:35:25:30 – 00:35:43:49
Basil Gooden
Oh, I, I you know, I think, people like, tip O’Neill, I guess, and people, on both sides. Our. We had a senator in Virginia, Senator John Warner, he was, a big Republican, but, it again.

00:35:43:54 – 00:35:44:55
David Martin
Mary Elizabeth Taylor.

00:35:44:59 – 00:36:13:05
Basil Gooden
Yeah, that’s exactly right. But but he seemed to always be fair. I like people like, you know, John McCain, someone who said, hey, you know, sometimes we just need to put politics aside and things of that nature. And certainly, you know, President Barack Obama, I mean, he was very inspirational. I got the opportunity to work in his administration and, so it really is I be trying to be a part of administrations that are really trying to institute good government.

00:36:13:18 – 00:36:19:39
David Martin
And so did you always see yourself in public service where your president, the student council, was just like, I figure this is where you’re headed.

00:36:19:43 – 00:36:44:34
Basil Gooden
No, I was always actively involved, but it was really behind the scenes. And, so, you know, I didn’t, see myself it really in some of these positions that I am in, as undersecretary of, USDA Rural development, I never really envisioned that, I was also the secretary of agriculture for the state of Virginia.

00:36:44:39 – 00:36:54:56
Basil Gooden
And, you know, I’ve just been very blessed and very fortunate. I just knew I wanted to be a part of it. I didn’t know, to to what extent state government.

00:36:55:01 – 00:37:03:21
David Martin
Federal government, a past eight years, a National Academy of Public Administration fellow. What should people know about government? They don’t know.

00:37:03:26 – 00:37:29:16
Basil Gooden
It makes a difference. Government makes a difference in your life day in and day out. And and so, I, a gentleman, he’s almost 96 years old. He’s from a place called Covington, Virginia. And he was, speaking, actually, just about two weeks ago. And he was talking about the election of, Eisenhower. He was just talking going way back.

00:37:29:16 – 00:37:54:21
Basil Gooden
And he said he said what people really need to understand is that government will control you for your life after you’re gone, why you’re living and even before you, for you are born, that it really plays an important part in the things that you’re able to do while you’re here and once you’re gone as well. So you should really pay attention and be a part of it, the best you can.

00:37:54:36 – 00:37:58:21
David Martin
What’s the best part of your job as, rural development for the USDA?

00:37:58:26 – 00:38:28:17
Basil Gooden
Oh, it was always making a difference in the lives of the people we’re there to serve. I mean, and and just seeing the difference that you’re making. I mean, the investment, I mean, our portfolio was, again, about $234 billion as huge, we we allocated about $40 billion annually. And so seeing, you know, hospitals being built, see, and broadband being, expanded in these rural areas, seeing businesses open.

00:38:28:31 – 00:38:43:52
Basil Gooden
And so just seeing the impact of the decisions that you’re making and trying to restructure and making sure that government is there addressing the needs that you can’t. I mean, you can’t understate how impactful that is.

00:38:44:06 – 00:38:57:34
David Martin
Usually on this show. I have I talked to a lot of mayors and ask them, what’s the what’s the what’s the cuisine of your city? What’s your favorite local dish? But for you, I’ve got to say, what’s your state? Well, how do you eat your steak? What’s your what’s what’s the best kind of steak?

00:38:57:36 – 00:39:03:41
Basil Gooden
Well, I tell you, I’m a rib eye. I’m a rib. Yeah. I’m just, but, and,

00:39:03:46 – 00:39:08:13
David Martin
And does anyone cook it better with, you know.

00:39:08:18 – 00:39:15:44
Basil Gooden
They’re they’re few. I have some, cousins, relatives that they can do some wonderful things in the kitchen and and on the grill, on the grill.

00:39:15:44 – 00:39:17:28
David Martin
And so do you work the grill?

00:39:17:33 – 00:39:19:52
Basil Gooden
I do, I love it, I love the work, the grill, but.

00:39:19:54 – 00:39:20:33
David Martin
So ribeye.

00:39:20:40 – 00:39:22:27
Basil Gooden
Yeah. Revie.

00:39:22:32 – 00:39:23:35
David Martin
What’s your ribeye recipe.

00:39:23:40 – 00:39:42:46
Basil Gooden
Oh I can’t disclose. Right. Yeah. But I but most of, the most of what I like to consume certainly, I mean is medium rare. Yeah. Okay. Is that, but, it is, but you can’t beat, I think black Angus, beef steak, here in the United States.

00:39:42:58 – 00:39:44:32
David Martin
All right. What do you do for fun?

00:39:44:37 – 00:39:45:24
Basil Gooden
Oh, I.

00:39:45:29 – 00:39:46:34
David Martin
Ride your ATV, Rob.

00:39:46:36 – 00:40:01:01
Basil Gooden
Yeah, I work on the farm and try to convince my wife that I need another, equipment. The something else that goes on on the farm. And so now spending time there on the farm is really relaxing and just being outdoors with people.

00:40:01:06 – 00:40:10:55
David Martin
So this is the good government show. We always bring it back to good government. Give me some good government story that you can talk about, that you were able to accomplish, rural development USDA.

00:40:10:59 – 00:40:49:34
Basil Gooden
Oh, wow. That’s well, let me pick one of, the many. Okay. I think we talked again. What? What really? Inspired me was being able to open hospitals and, and and so recognizing that this hospital in Tillman, Oklahoma was close, and, and and working with the people on the ground. And what was very, very exciting about that hospital in Oklahoma was that it was bipartisan, AB1, a Republican, state senator there, led the charge along with, some Democrats.

00:40:49:39 – 00:41:14:55
Basil Gooden
But this was a needed facility in, in, in, in Oklahoma. And so, being able to, yeah. And provide that gap funding that made this project work for the developers and for the community. To me, it’s just very heartening. And so I, I like that project. I talk about it a lot, anytime we can provide better health care and then.

00:41:14:56 – 00:41:40:55
Basil Gooden
Really. Well. And why that’s important for me is, I grew up as a asthmatic. So, actually, and the closest hospital to where I was from, is about an hour away. And so, I don’t know if, you know, anyone has ever experienced not being able to breathe or having an asthma attack and having to go so far away for, medical care.

00:41:40:59 – 00:41:46:15
Basil Gooden
So I understand the importance of having good medical care close to where you are.

00:41:46:20 – 00:41:57:48
David Martin
You are going to speak here at the National Conference for Napa on reflections on Purpose, progress and the path ahead. So, yes, tell us give us some hope. What’s the path ahead?

00:41:57:48 – 00:42:28:43
Basil Gooden
Oh, no, I think it’s exciting times. I think I do I think it’s exciting times. I again I’m going to reflect on some of the just a good things, you know, that we were able to accomplish, in the federal government. But actually, I think it’s, always opportunities for us to, do better. And so even, even though things are changing, on the federal level, although things, you know, they may be reductions, things will be different.

00:42:28:48 – 00:42:55:51
Basil Gooden
But I also think that when things change, it brings, opportunities for the best in the brightest thinking, to come forward. And so I just think that, you know, this is just an opportunity for people to realize, hey, government is important. Hey, we want to support what, you know, whether it’s rural development, we want to support what, this this government does.

00:42:56:00 – 00:42:57:28
David Martin
And so I hope you’re right.

00:42:57:39 – 00:43:04:21
Basil Gooden
I hope. And so we really have to change that narrative. We really have to communicate. We have to convince people that, you know.

00:43:04:26 – 00:43:06:02
David Martin
Well, we’re trying here year.

00:43:06:02 – 00:43:07:56
Basil Gooden
You’re you’re doing a great job of it as well.

00:43:07:56 – 00:43:15:44
David Martin
So thank you very much, Basil. Good. The former undersecretary for rural development for the United States Department of Agriculture. Great to have you on the show.

00:43:15:44 – 00:43:21:26
Basil Gooden
Thank you. Thank you for having me. And thank you for what you do and keep up the great work. Thank you.

00:43:21:31 – 00:43:41:34
David Martin
You want to hear more about good government? Check out another show I host leading Iowa Good Government in Iowa cities. I host the show with Brad Cavanaugh, mayor of Dubuque, Iowa, and the immediate past president of the Iowa League of Cities. Together, we talk to leaders in Iowa cities. We talk about what works and what good government looks like in Iowa.

00:43:41:39 – 00:44:03:23
David Martin
Join us right here. We listening now that’s leading Iowa. Good government in Iowa. Cities. It was called the War to End all Wars. But it didn’t. Three royal cousins, all kings, one from England, one from Germany and one from Russia blundered their way into a war, a completely avoidable war that left millions dead in the trenches across Europe.

00:44:03:28 – 00:44:29:55
David Martin
Good government show executive producer Jim Ludlow details the blunders, mistakes and bluster that started World War One that didn’t end all wars. The book The Royal Cousins details the events and creates an alternative history. Imagine a World War one never happened. It didn’t have to just read it yourself. Download the book today on Amazon. It’s just $0.99 and a timely look at history.

00:44:30:00 – 00:44:52:34
David Martin
You can’t replace people with AI or with a kiosk. Basil Gooden, the former undersecretary for rural development at the U.S. Department of Agriculture, says that’s important, especially in rural America. People want to look someone in the eye, and it should be someone who knows their community and their way of life that’s important, he says. It sounds like good government to me, and it sounds like the Department of Agricultural does indeed help local government improve.

00:44:52:39 – 00:45:08:01
David Martin
All right. Okay. Steak. Yeah, I know, rare steak, but sorry, I want mine coming off the grill a little bit after. It’s rare but definitely I agree on the ribeye. It’s an excellent cut. Well that’s our show. Thanks for listening. Please like us and share this with your friends and review us right here. Real estate and check out our website.

00:45:08:01 – 00:45:25:00
David Martin
Good government show.com for extras. Help us keep telling stories of good government and action everywhere. Join us again for another episode right here. I’m Dave Martin and this is the Good Government show.

00:45:25:05 – 00:45:46:39
David Martin
The Good Government show is a Valley Park production. Jim Ludlow, Dave Martin, that’s me and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our show is edited and produced by Jason Stershic. Please subscribe, then share and like us and review us. That’s the best way to make sure we’re able to keep telling these stories of our government working for all of us.

00:45:46:54 – 00:46:02:04
David Martin
Then listen to the next episode of The Good Government Show.

00:46:02:09 – 00:46:04:49
Narrator
This podcast is part of the democracy Group.

**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.