Cleaning up the Mississippi River in Minnesota

David Martin: This is the good government show.

Debbie Goettel: We as counties actually have a very big role to play in these waterways and our rivers. They know who the people are, who need extra care, who just need to check in, who need to get to a doctor, maybe and get their meds changed. They can help arrange all this stuff before it becomes a police call. People just want to be heard.

They’re hurting and might even not be my fault, but they want to be heard. They want to be respected. And they want a little bit of empathy. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I want that. You know, I never knew that I was going to love this so much. I think you should never turn down an open door like this.

You should go sit on a commission. You should go for your park and rec department and go sit on that at the city level. Or go. Go run for your school board, you know, go do something. Even if it says like you’re doing the finance for the PTA. You’d be surprised when you get pulled into that. How rewarding when you have a real win, how rewarding that is.

David Martin: The Mississippi River is America’s second longest river and some 2350 miles long. Almost half the waters in the U.S. flow into the river. It runs through beside ten states. The river supports a $400 billion shipping industry. Mark Twain wrote about it. Muddy waters sang about it, and it needs help. America’s River is number one on the most endangered rivers list.

And the good news and the good government story is in Minnesota. They’re making a difference. Welcome to the good government show. I’m Dave Martin. You’re about to hear from Debbie Patel. She’s a Hennepin County commissioner. Hennepin includes the city of Minneapolis and its suburbs. And the Mississippi River runs right through the city. And she’s leading a local effort to clean up the river.

First, help us share the message of good government by liking us and showing us where we are. On Facebook, YouTube, Instagram and Blue Sky. Please share a show with your friends and viewers where you’re listening and join our Good Government Show community. Check out our website for the link for some backstory. I met Lisa Flanders a year ago.

She’s a county commissioner in Hennepin County, Minnesota and lives in Redwing, a small city downriver from Minneapolis. She decided something had to be done to help clean up the Mississippi, and she decided she’s going to be the one to do it. She created the Mighty Mississippi Cleanup challenge. The goal removed the trash. She kicked off the program in 2022 with 50 volunteers.

Later this season, you’re going to hear from Linda Flanders. But first, we wanted to hear from the county that cleaned up the most trash. In 2025, there were a total of 3002 volunteers. This year, five counties got involved. Hennepin County, one of the biggest trash collection. Now this is truly good government stepping in, organizing volunteers and cleaning up a river.

And not just any river. This is the Mississippi River. Commissioner Goodell and I talked about the cleanup efforts and how many people joined in the cleanup this year. And here’s something I just found out. Did you know you can actually walk across the Mississippi River but at its source. And you’ll hear about that later. We talked about other good government projects going on in Minneapolis and Whitley here.

They have essentially solved the homeless veterans problem in her county. A lot going on in Hennepin County. And that’s coming up with County Commissioner Debbie Cattell right after this.

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Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m happy to have with me Debbie. Go tell. She is a county commissioner from Hennepin County, Minnesota, which is Minneapolis, Minnesota. Good to have you with us. Thanks for coming on.

Debbie Goettel: Absolutely.

David Martin: So we’re here at the, National Association of Counties annual conference. And one of the things that we want to talk about is some of the things that you’ve been doing, but most especially about the Mississippi River cleanup. And I understand that you are this year’s winner of the Mississippi.

Debbie Goettel: Yes we are. We’ve actually been the winner most years. But I don’t think that anybody really cares, and especially the organizer of that. So it it’s a great it’s a great thing. And actually it was a colleague from another county. Yeah. Commissioner Linda Flanders and.

David Martin: Flanders.

Debbie Goettel: Was the one who came and challenged us.

David Martin: She challenged you.

Debbie Goettel: So you got a bunch of public servants up that are elected up on this day as a new challenge for us. You think we’re going to turn out? You bet we are.

David Martin: So let’s just talk about the Mississippi. Because the Mississippi, the origin of the Mississippi, the mouth of the Mississippi is in Minnesota.

Debbie Goettel: Yes. Up north.

David Martin: And here’s something I just found out today. You can actually walk across the Mississippi River.

Debbie Goettel: Yes, you can. Up there. Right where it starts. Absolutely. And I’ve done it before. It’s a beautiful part of the north country of Minnesota, where it’s wooded and everything. And literally, I have walked across that, what I would call a trickling stream.

David Martin: It’s the water. Pure and clean. Yes.

Debbie Goettel: Oh, yeah. And it’s rocks under the knees and everything like this. And as you walk down further, it just starts to grow.

David Martin: Okay. And at what point does it turn into did it start turning into an environmental hazard?

Debbie Goettel: I would say that some of it started quite a long time ago, when we started using a lot of chemicals along the edges of the banks, when we would plow right up there, and we were using chemicals on our farmland. Right. Also, I would say then down further into the urban cores where we had chemical pollutants coming from industry, that was, you know, something that we all did to all our rivers at a certain period of time, thinking that pollution could be diluted and that the rivers could absorb it.

But as we grew larger, that did not happen. Same thing with our sanitary sewers not being treated and dumped right into the rivers.

David Martin: And this all happened before our time. But yeah, but in the early 70s when people realized we needed to clean up the rivers, and that’s when the EPA was created. And and that’s when environmental awareness, the Indian, you know, public service announcement we all saw. So tell me what it is that needs to be done to the Mississippi.

I mean, this is one of America’s most vital waterways in many ways, is instrumental in the growth of the United States. What happens and what needs to be done?

Debbie Goettel: Well, I don’t think what a lot of people don’t realize is at the county level, we have watershed districts. We have point to those watershed districts. There is dollars tax dollars going to those watershed districts. They have really huge, large and small plans that very much look at how to make it healthier, how to clean it up, and how to keep it sustainable, and how to also make it more recreational for all of our residents along this.

And so we as counties actually have a very big role to play in these waterways. And our rivers.

David Martin: So let’s talk a little bit about the Mississippi River challenge to clean up. How long have you been participating?

Debbie Goettel: Well, you know, it’s only has started for a couple of years now. And it was again, one of our colleagues from another county was a good Shoe County.

David Martin: New county winner.

Debbie Goettel: Mr. Flanders, I mean, and we sit on boards with all of our counties from across the country, but also in our state. And she came to the dais and said, well, I want to give you a challenge. And that’s how it all propagated. But she didn’t do it just to us. She did it to some of our other colleagues.

David Martin: I think it started with 3 or 4 counties and now it’s grown.

Debbie Goettel: Yes, it’s grown. So Beltrami County, Winona County was in on this. I’m trying to think of, out in Red wing. We had counties and there are others that weren’t mentioned. Stearns County, I think, did it Anoka County. I’m trying to think of all the big players that everybody started to jump on board, and it was a good contest.

It was friendly competition among colleagues and we all was.

David Martin: It friendly competition.

Debbie Goettel: Actually was less friendly. It was okay. But I mean, I think we were all on board because we all knew we wanted to do something nice, and we knew that there was enough energy around this whole programing of doing it and getting our residents involved in doing something that they really thought that could have an impact, because not only we were doing it, all these other counties were doing it.

David Martin: So I have some stats here that, you’re free to accept or reject. You’ve won this, Hennepin County has won this two years now. Yeah. The Mississippi watershed clean up. You had 2800 volunteers. You had 110 bags of litter, 20, 20,500 pounds of trash, correct?

Debbie Goettel: Yes. Oh, yeah. That’s correct.

David Martin: All right, now let’s start at the beginning. 2800 volunteers. How does one get 2800 people to volunteer to pick up trash?

Debbie Goettel: We already have a core amount of our, our constituents and our residents who already listen to the environmental stuff. We do our zero waste challenge. We’re at farmers markets, we sign people up and they watch us all the time. I’m always surprised how many people know what’s going on at the county board in our district. Okay. And they have signed up to you must have great communication.

So so yeah. So it’s it’s outreach. It’s outreach. Okay. But I mean, we’re everywhere and, you know, this is an easy thing. You get the kids involved in this. I mean, people, my neighbors kind of look at me when I roll the the bin down to the edge of the curb because I’m cleaning up the storm sewer, you know, and I don’t think the people think of it to do that.

I mean, when you mow your yard and it falls into the gutter, do you think to clean up that gutter, too? Most people don’t. But we’re we’re trying to get there and we are getting there. And the kids love it. The kids really get into this.

David Martin: So tell other county commissioners who are listening in and city mayors, how do you get almost 3000 people to volunteer to do stuff in your county?

Debbie Goettel: Well, you kind of make it a contest to you. Let them know it’s a contest, okay? You let them know that you know, your neighboring, county over there. You don’t want them to beat you, do you? And you do. We want Hennepin.

David Martin: County.

Debbie Goettel: You beat us. Yeah. So we want to make sure that we do it. And it’s small things like picking up the trash and then going down to the storm sewer, making sure our gutters are clean and everything. Your street sweeper only comes around twice a year. That’s not going to be enough that it’s helpful, but all those we also educate.

All the kids at school have all these projects where they go to the local water bodies, and they learn about what’s flowing in there from storm sewer. So they know that that that storm sewer drain down at the end of their block is going to go and eventually into that Mississippi River. And if there’s garbage and junk there, it’s going to end up there.

And that’s not a good thing.

David Martin: Given the historic importance of the Mississippi River. Do you feel like you have kind of a bit of a special obligation to keep the waterway clean and clean it up?

Debbie Goettel: Yes. This is not just for our state. It’s for all the states all the way down into the Gulf. Right. And you will see what has happened through the hurricanes in the Gulf, in the destruction. Then they’ve had to try to come back. And the mitigation they’re now doing, building larger bridges that can go over the water so that they can get to their ports.

I mean, this is what happens when we don’t take care of things. And so we’re mitigating some of that right now. We need to stop it. We need to stand still. We need to make it resilient and we need to make it sustainable.

David Martin: You collected 20,500 pounds of trash. What was in there? What did you pull out of the river?

Debbie Goettel: Oh, my God, it was all right. You know, sometimes it’s dead animals. Okay, I’m just going to say there’s rodents and stuff in those storm sewers and things, I’m sure. But a lot of it’s just garbage. It fell out of somebody’s car when they opened it up and didn’t see it. Okay, like a bag from McDonald’s or a plastic cup.

Because when I’m out walking around my neighborhood, I pick up those things. There’s an old newspapers that have gone down in there. There’s. And. But a lot of it’s debris from washed off your lawns. There’s leaves, there’s pieces of sticks and twigs and lawn cuttings and things like that. But just washed down there normally. Right. That’s the most part of it.

I don’t see dumping anymore. I don’t see people dumping things.

David Martin: That’s a good sign.

Debbie Goettel: Yeah, that’s a a good sign. But you do see when there’s a lot of rain in certain areas that aren’t planted, well, you see an awful lot of soil and you actually see an awful lot of grain and grit and rock and stuff going down there. And it’s silt up things, and that makes it really hard for your sanity, for your stormwater system to work well.

So we have to go out there and we have to go dredge some of those paths that they use from time to time. And we find stuff in there, too. I think it’s worse in the ponds because we find old tires and things like that in the ponds. You know, we even find small appliances and things. It’s it’s kind of sad.

David Martin: As a result of, you know, you’re you’re you’re the two year back to back winner, has has this, put any new policy in place or any new initiatives or programs to, to make sure you don’t have to clean up 20,000 pounds next year?

Debbie Goettel: Yes. We have a zero waste initiative at the county. Okay.

David Martin: And we’re hoping government but yes, zero waste. We like this.

Debbie Goettel: Yeah. So what we’re doing with that, it’s a contest to we want to see what groups or areas or neighborhoods can do the best at this. And anybody can join. And we share tips of how you can do that and where other counties are starting to take note. And they want to know, how do you do a zero waste challenge?

And it’s a very difficult thing to do in this society with so much still very much throw away.

David Martin: How do you do as you’re always shown?

Debbie Goettel: We teach people how to use their co-ops, how to buy things in box, how to bring their own bins, how to use their own bags for groceries and things like this, or how to use paper bags because they’re recyclable instead of the plastic. Some cities have banned the plastic bags.

David Martin: I live in New York City. You’ve got to bring your own bag.

Debbie Goettel: Yeah, we ought to bring our own bag, too. In Minnesota and a lot of places we also have we use compostable paper plates, knives, forks and stuff at events we have gotten to a point where we just said no more. We’ve taught people how to compost in their own yards. Would you want a lot of things? It’s a huge effort across across our county.

David Martin: Getting people to put their trash in the right place and to recycle is not simple. And there’s a lot of people who like, it doesn’t matter. How do you get people to make it matter?

Debbie Goettel: You know, and I got to tell you, one of the biggest ways we do that this is between.

David Martin: Is between.

Debbie Goettel: The kids. Okay? This is a kids. Yeah, the kids want to do it, and they’re learning it at school.

David Martin: And they tell their parents.

Debbie Goettel: Yeah, they do. And they say, mom, that doesn’t go there.

David Martin: Okay.

Debbie Goettel: I’m glad they didn’t go there, you know. Or is go walk over to the can and put it in the right one. All right. You know, and the parents are starting to rely on. But it’s difficult I will tell you, it’s difficult for me. And I’m an environmental engineer by trade. And I have to tell you that it depends on where you live.

So ones and twos are recyclable in Hennepin County and so are some fives. I don’t know which fives.

David Martin: Okay.

Debbie Goettel: Nothing black is recyclable because our sorters can’t go through it. All right okay. And some places where my son lives in Kansas they can’t recycle glass. Oh they know a second glass. We do. We recycle glass. They don’t know to that you can put a pizza box with stained pizza and stuff into your compost bin. Okay. So it’s for for pickup because we have.

David Martin: In New York City, we now have pizza sized boxes. You can slide a pizza box into it into a recycle bin. Yeah. So there you go. From New York City to Minnesota. I hope that helps.

Debbie Goettel: Yes. We’re all in this together, right?

David Martin: Yes. Yes we are, yes we are. So how does it feel to be a winner.

Debbie Goettel: You know, I like it, and it’s kind of fun. The competition we kind of knew with just our size that we would most likely be. And I think our colleagues did, too. In the other counties. But I don’t think they we don’t care. We’re going to elevate everybody as winners, really, when you think about it, because it’s our waterways are going to be.

David Martin: Are you were you down there in the Mississippi River on the challenge day?

Debbie Goettel: I wasn’t down on that particular day. I was actually I’ve been doing my storm drains. Okay, I do that. I’m. I’m down in the neighborhood, all right. Cleaning up after that mess. So.

David Martin: So either way, you’re you’re you’re you’re a water.

Debbie Goettel: County commissioner who drags there. Been down there with the shovel, okay. And the bin to pick up the garbage at the, at the corners.

David Martin: What do you do? Do you do anything for the volunteers? Do you throw a big party? Do they all go to nice them?

Debbie Goettel: We do. We recognize them. Oh yeah, we have, we do. And we have refreshments and stuff with them. And there’s just so fab, fabulous and everything. They’re so great.

David Martin: Do I have any idea how, how big? How many counties are involved now in the Mississippi River?

Debbie Goettel: Cleanup, I would suspect, is close to a dozen. No.

David Martin: Okay.

Debbie Goettel: So I think it’ll only grow.

David Martin: It only grow.

Debbie Goettel: You know, and what we have to do.

David Martin: Now, so is is Linda’s goal is to start in Minnesota. I’d work her way down.

Debbie Goettel: Then we got to go down to Iowa next. All right. My sister lives in Fort Dodge, Iowa, so I gotta get. I gotta get on her.

David Martin: I can connect you to the mayor of tribute. I’m sure. I’m sure he will want to hear about this. All right, well, I will, we will we will talk about that later. So there’s just a couple of other things I wanted to talk about, you know, because this is a good government show and we talk about all good government and Hennepin.

And I know there’s a couple of things you’re working on. You mentioned, you’ve got a housing program that I.

Debbie Goettel: Think was shelter program.

David Martin: Shelter, sorry, shelter.

Debbie Goettel: So shelter for all. And we’re still one of the counties that shelters families within 24 hours. We don’t think a kid should sleep outside. A lot of counties haven’t been able to.

David Martin: Especially in Minnesota.

Debbie Goettel: Yes. It’s cold. Yeah, it’s really bad. And I think one of the other things is is too. After the pandemic happened, we went and refurbished a lot of our shelters. We really worked very hard with that, and we took a whole different stand on this as making them 24, seven shelters. And we stopped to pay for shelter. And as we did that, we also brought in the social workers.

So on one day you might have somebody who helps you get an appointment with a doctor. On another day, they may help you find your paperwork so that you can get some of the documentation that you need to qualify for Social Security or Medicare or any of those other programs, veterans, programs. Another day, a housing person will come in and it’s expensive.

No, we had those social workers anyway. They were sitting in offices. Now they go to the people in the shelters. Actually, we housing faster, so it’s cheaper when you house them faster and cheaper for you.

David Martin: Why is that?

Debbie Goettel: Because we we don’t have them in the shelters. We actually closed shelters because we have actually been able to house people that fast.

David Martin: Okay. This sounds like good government.

Debbie Goettel: Yes. Absolutely is and is the right way to do about it. Shelter. First, make sure that they can then get a home and then figure out how to get them a job and how to keep them stable. Get them whatever medical help they need. Mental health, you know, all those kinds of things, put it in place and stabilize that person.

David Martin: And how many people have you been able to do this for on an annual basis or hundreds?

Debbie Goettel: Okay, we ended homeless for veterans in Hennepin County, you.

David Martin: Have ended homeless or veterans in Hudson County.

Debbie Goettel: Yes. So now we’re going.

David Martin: To your phone ringing off the hook, people calling you. So how do you do that?

Debbie Goettel: Yes. And the senators came out. Senator Smith, Senator Klobuchar, they were with us when we accepted that award. They really talked about what we do and how we need to take that model to other places that we do it. And again, it was a shelter all and shelter for us. Now there are still veterans who become homeless, but we can grab them as they come now.

Right. And so it doesn’t overwhelm our system. So we’ve been able to redeploy those people into some of our needed areas for sheltering just regular families, single adults, our new immigrants, our new arrivals.

David Martin: Those people you talked about social workers, and I wanted to ask you about another social worker program. I think I’m not sure it’s called the Embedded social Worker program, where you have social workers working with the police department, especially in nonviolent or family dispute kind of issues. This sounds like a very good idea. Can you explain the program to me a little bit?

Debbie Goettel: I can, because when I was mayor of Richfield before I came and county commissioner as a mayor, okay. And we were one of the pilot cities for this, is that so? We tried it on a on a basis, and we shared the social worker. There was other cities, too. Is Brooklyn Center, Brooklyn Park, those areas also did this at the same time because we wanted to get a a small sampling to see.

Would this really impact the phone calls that the police were getting? Could we take them and actually stop some of those phone calls? And in reality, when the data came out and it was a it was about an 18 month pilot when it first ran, was that it was a significant lowering of the phone calls. Right? Yeah. To the point where we knew we had to do more than just those three cities.

And so after that, this is when we started. And expansion program. We expanded the hours, we expanded that. And now the program has we are in every single city in Hennepin County. It has an embedded social worker. They go and visit these homes before they would be a police call. They know who the people are, who need extra care, who just needed to check in, who need to get to a doctor maybe and get their message changed.

They can help arrange all this stuff before it becomes a police call.

David Martin: But when it is a police call, I would imagine that the police are probably very happy to have someone with them, or someone they can refer to immediately because this is, you know, these are these are, you know, for the most part, officers aren’t there to, you know, to just settle family disputes. And if you have someone you can call in that has to de-escalate the problem.

Debbie Goettel: And actually specifically in Richfield, we have two families that has a couple of kiddos who have mental health issues, and they have violent outbursts, and they are able to respond to those kids right away. Now, this is not a 24 seven call. Okay. It it is it is 5 to 6 days a week. And so we have another place.

It’s 1800 Chicago, where we can take people who are in a critical place. We can take them there. And it’s a mental health out. Open 24 seven okay. And this is where we can stabilize them. Sometimes we can take them back home. Sometimes we can stabilize them overnight depending on what their needs are. And we can get them back.

We get get their drugs that they need and everything. They have a full time pharmacy, all the things that they need at 1800 Chicago, it’s it’s in the center of the city. So this is your idea. Okay. This was not my idea. Okay. But I did pass the resolution and the dollars to make that a 24 seven clinic.

David Martin: One of the thing I read about that sounds like good government in Minnesota, and I. I’m remembering this from reading this a few years ago. Aren’t you now powering your sports stadiums with, alternative energy?

Debbie Goettel: Yes we are. We’ve been doing that actually for a long time. And not just that, the stadiums, we have 26,000 residents on that. Okay. Various businesses and then the sidewalks, to keep them by the light rail up by where the stadium is so that they aren’t icy in the winters. You know, we’re in Minnesota, you know, that there’s a lot of snow.

Yes, it is. So that that is our waste to energy facility.

David Martin: Okay.

Debbie Goettel: Waste energy that’s been around for a very long time now. And we’ve done a lot of upgrades and retrofits. And we are actually looking at a some possibilities of making that a zero emissions waste to energy facility.

David Martin: If you only had an environmental engineer on the commission, you’d know said.

Debbie Goettel: Yeah, I got quite a few of those in the staff to and this is this is definitely where I want to go. We didn’t have a climate action plan until I came on the board.

David Martin: I know you do.

Debbie Goettel: You do now.

David Martin: And what is your climate action plan? Well, like, what’s the big picture? Well, I.

Debbie Goettel: Think I think we always did energy savings. We did a lot around climate change and everything internally. When I came to the board, I said, why? We’re doing a lot of good work. We’re first of all not telling anybody about it and we’re not sharing it. And I said, why are we just doing internal? I mean, it’s good for us because we save money.

If you make a building energy efficiency, you save a lot of money. Sure, taxpayers, but why are we saving the taxpayers money everywhere? That’s our our schools, our infrastructure, our households, everything. And we expanded the program countywide, including everyone, residents, everyone. And so this that’s why we go to the Zero Waste project, because a zero waste project helps us look at that.

That waste energy facility. We want to make sure that that’s only only, taking in organics and the things that burn to make them into a usable fuel to put that steam out and use that that way. And so we work with our residents. That’s why we have that many volunteers you talked about when we did this. Yes.

Those are the same people that we have been connecting with for decades, those same families and into those same schools about this is going on. They come to us to help us with the all these environmental programs, and they’re the ones who helped us when we started composting.

David Martin: Okay.

Debbie Goettel: So they you.

David Martin: Are a tool to, to to to to pull from already.

Debbie Goettel: Yeah. So we just we pull from them now. But you know we, we started countywide composting and they came with a great lot of feedback for us. And then they, they started to talk about how do we do this in multifamily housing. And the whole thing is, is it’s really hard to retrofit like businesses and large apartment complexes to do the good work that we need to be doing.

Right, right. Those kinds of things. And of course, we took advantage of all the great infrastructure dollars, and the green new bill that came through, and we were able to lower all our energy costs. And we’re still doing that. I mean, we’re still going over to our county hospitals. We’re looking at relighting profiles and everything. We just we’re looking at every way we can squeeze another dollar back.

David Martin: Now we’re going to take a lighter turn.

Debbie Goettel: Okay.

David Martin: I have had a colleague commissioner on from Saint Paul. These these are Minnesota and Minneapolis and Saint Paul of the Twin Cities. What’s the biggest difference?

Debbie Goettel: There’s a lot of difference in that because they house our government okay. And they have a lot of Pil. So that’s payment in lieu. So the I think they struggle more I think they have a harder time because they have an awful lot of what I call non-government, types of entities that don’t pay taxes. And so we do.

Debbie Goettel: All right. And so payment in lieu is you get a payment from the federal government to try to make up that base. And I think it’s a lot harder for them. Okay. And that way. And so I would say they’re smaller than us. But they’re pretty nimble. I would say we share a lot together. We are the we are the bigger sister city for sure.

We don’t have as much nonprofit and government building in there that doesn’t pay taxes. So I think our tax base is different. I think also our industrial mix and our is different. And so that brings us to a different place. They have stadiums, we have stadiums. So there’s a lot of similarities to.

David Martin: How often you get to Saint Paul.

Debbie Goettel: Oh, I get to Saint Paul, several times every month. I actually have very many meetings over there lots of times. And I know all my colleagues.

David Martin: I’m sure you do. Yes, I get well, that was the easy part. We’re going to get to the hard part in just a moment.

Debbie Goettel: Oh, hard part,

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Okay, this is the hard part, okay? This is where we get to hear your thoughts, your philosophy on government. Are you ready?

Debbie Goettel: Okay.

David Martin: All right. So you are a county commissioner now. How long?

Debbie Goettel: Nine years.

David Martin: Nine years. And before that you were. I was the mayor.

Debbie Goettel: I was the mayor for ten years of the city of Richfield.

David Martin: So let’s say 20 years in government. Yeah. Define good government.

Debbie Goettel: It means looking at a wise decision. I think the biggest and the best way I can describe it is show me your budget. I’ll show you what you believe in.

David Martin: Okay.

Debbie Goettel: But I believe in a balanced budget. I want to say that I run the county budget right now. It’s $3.1 billion. We balance that budget every year, every year.

David Martin: Otherwise they have to answer to you.

Debbie Goettel: Absolutely they do. And they know it. And every year I’m already on them. And I when I talk to my department leads I’m going to say, what are you doing on your budget right now? And they’re already because we’re starting a budget cycle soon. They’re already telling me what they’re going to do. And of course, you know, we’ve got the we’ve got some different federal legislation coming down.

Yes. And we are trying to prepare for that. And I’m asking them that question, how are you preparing for this? And I regularly meet with our CFO and I ask him the same questions. What are we doing now to prepare for this? And then what are we doing? Because we know we’re going to lose some federal grants and some federal dollars.

We already have, right? We also have had some cuts of some of our federal grants from the state because they are in a budget. Budget.

David Martin: They have the same problem too.

Debbie Goettel: Yes, we do, and they know what’s coming down as well. So I’m there is very serious business, but you put your priorities but show me your I’ll show you my priorities. I think my budget okay.

David Martin: What do.

Debbie Goettel: We care about.

David Martin: When people are frustrated with government, when they don’t like what government’s doing, when they don’t like what they see, what should they do? What can they do as an individual?

Debbie Goettel: As an individual call your call your county commissioner. I can’t tell you how many times to even as mayor, I had people come up and right on my front porch, there’s a lot of wasted beer, got that poor approach and we were let.

David Martin: You take the. I see the.

Debbie Goettel: Beer, I take I see I always offered a beer. Okay. But, you know, we had to sit there and just chit chat about what was really going on. I think a lot of it is not understanding what’s going on. Okay. And then the other piece of it is people just want to be heard. They’re hurting. It might even not be my fault, but they want to be heard.

They want to be respected, and they want a little bit of empathy. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I want that, So why wouldn’t they? And why can’t I give that to them? I should.

David Martin: How long does it take you to get to the grocery store?

Debbie Goettel: I go in off hours and I said, I sent some of the other family some. Sometimes I will tell you that I do go, but I do get stopped. I’m sure I do.

David Martin: I was talking to a county commissioner who said his wife no longer allows him to go to the hardware store. So what drew you to public service? This we are the voice of public service. What made you decide to get into public service? You’re an environmental engineer. You know.

Debbie Goettel: I had a good career, I really did.

David Martin: But you probably made more money. Yes, I better.

Debbie Goettel: Hours, I did, I yes.

David Martin: So what’s your.

Debbie Goettel: Advice about.

David Martin: What drew you to this? What made you decide.

Debbie Goettel: To do this? You know, my my son had graduated from high school and I got involved in my church, and they were doing this, this, social justice stuff. Yeah. And it was around the time where the Clinton it was a Clinton era. So that’s how far back this goes, right? When they were talking about, you know, some of the social service and the impact of welfare and the welfare to work programs and all these kinds of things.

And I got involved in that. And by the way, that particular organization was working on something called brownfields. Right. So brownfield started in Minnesota. I was the it yes, we were the ones who started that legislation. It was the first one of its kind.

David Martin: Brownfields are former manufacturing sites that are still there, that are no longer Superfund. Yes. Not Superfund, but but you.

Debbie Goettel: Can’t put residential on.

David Martin: Into you know. Yeah. Disrepair or Nonuse. Yes. Okay.

Debbie Goettel: So I was the environmental engineer on that bill.

David Martin: Okay.

Debbie Goettel: On the side that push that through with the with a social justice organization. But people don’t realize what brownfields really was. It was a cleanup. Sure. And there are dollars attached to do that. But it was a jobs bill in that was written in there that they have to be living wage jobs. And that was a really cool.

And and we got both Republicans and Democrats to sign on to that. So it was a nonpartisan bill. And we have been touted we’ve won awards for those kinds of things in Minnesota and other parts of the world. Other parts of the country have looked to us to figure out how we did brownfields, and they have copied our bills.

David Martin: Who inspires you? Who’s your political hero?

Debbie Goettel: Who’s my political hero? Yes. Well, one of them is Thomas Jefferson.

David Martin: I’ve heard of him.

Debbie Goettel: Yeah. And I go that far back because he was just a knowledgeable person, and he read everything in sight, and he was a nerd, and I read everything in sight, and he had right here. And I’m a nerd. Yes, I’m definitely a nerd. Okay. And and this stuff, really? I mean, I’m an engineer. So he was a process person, too?

Yes. He understood how process worked. And that’s how I run government and everything. So that and I would say that’s probably one of my biggest.

David Martin: All right. Thomas Jefferson I find that oh find role model. Did you always see yourself getting into I mean, you said you saw as a as an environmental engineer, were you president of your high school class? No. No. Nothing.

Debbie Goettel: No, I had no, no, no, I was popular enough. And I did theater play and I sang and all these other things, but I did not. Yeah, well, you know, I love this engineering and I did that, but I was doing that social justice work, like I said. And we won that bill and I kind of got the bug and they said, Debbie, stay up here.

We’ve got a couple more things. So I worked on some housing stuff, and so I worked on some other smaller community projects. And then the center for Community Change called me and they said, we have the reauthorization of the Transportation Iced Tea. That’s how far back I go. It was iced tea back then. Okay. That’s what it was called.

All right. And they asked me if I would come out on my weekends and take a day off work to go out there and talk to the Secretary of Transportation. And they arrange that and I, with a whole bunch of other groups and some, of our liturgical folks, you know, all the reverence and stuff from some of the churches came, but I was the technical person, right.

And we would talk to them and convince them to do things differently, have more public participation, way ahead of time. All these kinds of things. And we were very successful in getting internships and making sure they hired locally in those bills. And they still do that today because of the work that we did that many years ago. And this is before I was mayor.

Right? This is before as mayor. So I got this bug. And so I was working on a local housing project, and I was really upset of the current mayor, and he would not return my phone calls. And I sat on boards with him. Yes. Yeah. You know what it’s like when you don’t get your phone calls returned. And our constituents get very upset about that short term calls.

Well, he wouldn’t return my calls. And I just wanted to do inclusionary housing and I wouldn’t have a conversation. He wouldn’t have that conversation. He literally would run out the door on the other side. And I said, well, that’s it. I can do better than that. And I said, so when.

David Martin: People see you coming to, they routinely run out the back.

Debbie Goettel: Door. Some would like to.

David Martin: Okay.

Debbie Goettel: There are few I can say who like to, okay, but they know I’m coming.

David Martin: All right, all right.

Debbie Goettel: I’m not going to stop. So they better meet with me. So but yeah. And so I decided I got mad. And you know, being angry isn’t a bad thing when you think about mothers for drunk driving. Stop being mad is a really good motivator sometimes. And it was for me because I door knock parts of Ridgefield three times, and I won that election and I beat a 24 year incumbent.

Okay, to take that matters. And I return people’s phone.

David Martin: Calls and I return people’s phone. I will test you on that. So you’ve got a lengthy background in public service. First, you know, working for various government boards and then as a city, Marin County commissioner. What would you like people to know about government? You know, as a government insider?

Debbie Goettel: Well, you know, I never knew that I was going to love this so much. I think you should never turn down an open door like this. You should go sit on a commission. You should go for your park and rec department and go sit on that at the city level. Or go, go run for your school board, you know, go do something.

Even if it says like you’re doing the finance for the PTA, you’d be surprised when you get pulled into that. How rewarding when you have a real when how rewarding that is, and how good it feels when you really help someone and they say, hey, you know, you really helped me out. Thank you. I get a lot of thank you cards.

It’s so nice. I have them all. I have kept every single one of them because I thought, someday I’m going to show what what the people. And the reason.

David Martin: Is about getting bigger.

Debbie Goettel: Is it is. And I have lovely letters and stuff from people and some who weren’t, weren’t happy at the beginning and turned out to be, you know, how I’ve helped them over the years when they had problems.

David Martin: What do you tell people who say, oh, I would, but I don’t have the time or I can’t get there. I’m busy at night or I have three kids and oh yeah, it’s just and, you know, government’s not my thing. What do you tell them?

Debbie Goettel: Well, I asked them more than once. So there’s one person I asked 12 times before she ran.

David Martin: She’s not one of the people. The back door or the secret.

Debbie Goettel: Council member in Richfield.

David Martin: All right.

Debbie Goettel: Rory Coleman Woods, I’m giving you a shout out there. How many times did I ask you to run before you actually ran? And that’s the same with our current mayor. I asked her to run more than once, and I appointed her to something to. That’s how I got her hooked in. So you have to appoint somebody sometimes. And I work people in that way, too.

Hey, I really, really need you. You have the expertise I need to represent me, and I can trust you. Okay? And then I get him to run for office.

David Martin: What’s the best part of your job?

Debbie Goettel: Oh, helping people, being with the constituents, making a difference in people’s lives, figuring out how to solve problems. I’m a I’m an engineer, so I like to solve problems. All right. I have a I have two fabulous staff who help me do that. So I’m so lucky to have Kate and Graham.

David Martin: What keeps you up at night.

Debbie Goettel: Is the loss of dollars for Snap, the Medicare, the Medicaid issues. The assassination of Melissa Sherman, her husband, her dog. Yeah, that keeps me up at night.

David Martin: Minnesota state legislators who was assassinated? That’s right. Well, I have I have yet to come to Minneapolis or Saint Paul.

Debbie Goettel: Well, let me take you around.

David Martin: I, a friend of mine has offered, you know, to take me places, but has not done it yet. I will talk with her later.

Debbie Goettel: We get you into places that you others like to see. I’m just saying.

David Martin: What is the one thing I must try? What is the dish of Minneapolis hot dish?

Debbie Goettel: Minnesota hot dish. And you only get that by coming to somebody’s home. Okay, you’re invited to dinner.

David Martin: Thank you. All right. What are we doing for a hot dish?

Debbie Goettel: Oh, well, I’ll have to. So I have my signature hot dish is actually a chicken hot dish with broccoli. Okay. It’s the soup mixture that’s so perfect. And it’s a secret. So I didn’t.

David Martin: Listen to a lot of garrison Keillor created a mushroom soup. Finds it binds the state together.

Debbie Goettel: I try to. It’s only part of it.

David Martin: Okay. What do you do for fun.

Debbie Goettel: I don’t have as much time as I used to. I garden no, that’s my saving grace. I have a beautiful garden and people know how to find my house. They say it’s the white house with the red trim, but you’ll notice the garden first.

David Martin: Okay. What are we? What are we growing?

Debbie Goettel: We’re growing perennials. But inside, with my perennials, I grow vegetables right inside there because the lovely cabbages and stuff like this. And the gills look so beautiful with the flowers and the contrast. They’re gorgeous. I got string beans and peas planted.

David Martin: Here we go on a hot dish.

Debbie Goettel: Yes it does. And it goes. Can I still can.

David Martin: Oh.

Debbie Goettel: All right foods okay I freezing can yeah I’m I’m an old farm girl from way back. Are you. Yeah. So we’re a farm country.

David Martin: Yeah.

Debbie Goettel: Down in Sedalia, Missouri,

David Martin: Yes, ma’am. Okay. So hot dish farming, vegetables. Got it. Yeah, well, this is a good government show, and we always bring it back to good government. Tell me about a good government project that you actually got to do that you’re excited about.

Debbie Goettel: Planting a million trees.

David Martin: Where?

Debbie Goettel: In Minnesota and Hennepin County. And we plant trees and boulevard time. There’s pictures of me planting trees, but we also make them available to like, senior dwellings, to our schools and to other government entities. And we have our own nursery where we raise trees and we have formerly incarcerated learn how to become foresters, by that way. And then we sell those to the cities when they want to replace trees to at a very discounted rate.

And we give them grants to, to to help pay for the trees. So this is a carbon reduction plan. This is a.

David Martin: Restoration a lot about trees.

Debbie Goettel: Yes. So a million trees. And we are nearly halfway there.

David Martin: All right. Debbie Goettel, a county commissioner from Hennepin County that is Minneapolis, Minnesota. Congratulations on your Mississippi River cleanup challenge win two years in a row.

Debbie Goettel: Thank you.

David Martin: Thank you for coming on.

Debbie Goettel: Okay. Thank you. Been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.

David Martin: After you get done with this episode, hear more good government stories with our friends at How to Really Run a City for Mayors Kasim Reed of Atlanta and Michael Nutter of City Adelphia, and their co-host, journalist and author Larry Platt talk with guests and other mayors about how to really get stuff done in cities around the nation. Check them out where you’re listening now or through their nonprofit news site, The Philadelphia Citizen.

Dot org slash podcasts.

We hear a lot about good government in all forms on this show, but when you hear about 2800 people, many of them young people volunteering to pick up garbage, now that’s just good government. Getting involved is always the key to good government. That’s citizen engagement and doing that in Hennepin County. I’d like to tell some local pride as the county’s work together in a sort of a friendly competition, to clean up and remember, this is the Mississippi River, the big money, the great river.

And I’d like to tell us a bit of a local challenge in getting people to, well, do the right thing, like the zero waste challenge. Well, good government and a big clean up in Minnesota and on the mighty Mississippi. You’re going to hear more about the mighty Mississippi River cleanup challenge on future episodes. But good news and good government right now in Hennepin County.

Well, that’s our show. Thanks for listening. Please like us and share this with your friends and viewers right here where you’re listening, and check out our website. Good Government show.com for extras. Help us keep telling stories of good government and action everywhere. Join us again for another episode right here. I’m Dave Martin and this is the Good Government show.

The Good Government show is a Valley Park production. Jim Ludlow, Dave Martin, that’s me and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our show is edited and produced by Jason Stershic. Please subscribe, then share and like us and review us. That’s the best way to make sure we’re able to keep telling these stories of our government working for all of us.

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**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.