America’s Best Idea

David Martin: This is the good government show.

David Vela: It was really up an opportunity for me to learn more about myself, but also about our nation’s history and our ongoing efforts in becoming a more perfect union. When you reduce our ability by way of a reduction of staffing and capacity, it’s going to put a huge strain on those very resources that make up America’s best ideas.

And so our nation’s greatest conservation president realize and recognize that there’s just some places in our nation that definitely need to be set aside. Others are more suitable. Others are not.

Good government falls on three basic tenants. Transparency, accountability and excellence. Every policy, every budget, every action should withstand public scrutiny.

David Martin: Tomorrow is July 4th, 2025. On this day before the birthday of our nation’s founding, we thought it would be a good day to air my conversation with the former head of the National Park Service talking about something that truly makes America great on our nation’s birthday. Well, it just works. The best idea we ever had. That’s how one writer years ago described the National Park Service.

Our nation’s parks include such diverse sites as the former prison Alcatraz Island and San Francisco Bay, to the Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad National Historic Park in Maryland, and Zion National Park in Utah. On today’s show, I talked with David Vela, the former director of the National Park Service. Overall, he spent 38 years in public service and has a lot to say about the current climate for America’s national parks.

Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m Dave Martin. First, help us share the message of good government by liking us and sharing us where we are. On Facebook x YouTube, Instagram and blue Sky. Please share a show with your friends or any of us where you’re listening, and join our Good Government Show community. Check out our website for the link.

There are 63 national parks in the U.S.. These are some of the most visited and well known like Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, Grand Teton Redwoods, and Glacier just to name a few. There are national seashores, National monuments, National memorials, and National Historic sites. Like some of those I’ve been to, like the Harry Truman House in independence, Missouri, and Teddy Roosevelt’s house, Sagamore Hill in Oyster Bay, New York.

Well, I got to talk to the man who oversees all those sites. David Fellows served as a national park ranger starting at the age of 19, and ended up as the director of the National Park Service. He had an incredible run through his time with the Park Service, and you’re going to hear all about it. He talks about the pride he had in learning about and preserving our nation’s parks and our nation’s history.

He talks about what public service means to him and why it’s important, and we talk about why he proposed. Cuts to the Park Service are going to really impact all of us. So coming up, David Vela and a journey through America’s national parks.

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Welcome to the Good Government show. I am so happy. So excited to have with me David Vela, who’s the former director of the National Park Service and the author of a book I just finished reading Hola Ranger, welcome to the Good Government show.

David Vela: Thank you David. Thank you for the opportunity.

David Martin: Thank you for the opportunity. Now, first I just want to let people know a little bit about your background. 36 years in public service, most of them in the National Park Service. You were the first, Latino, director of the National Park Service. An incredible history of public service. So thank you for your service.

And, was it just a blast?

David Vela: Yeah, it it really was. Had the opportunity won to be nominated by the president to serve in that capacity, but also the opportunity at, the national level to work with some of the most professional, dedicated, passionate public servants, that I’ve ever worked with. It was truly an honor and a blessing.

David Martin: So I first of all, let’s just your book is called Ola Ranger and you wrote this all our Ranger. My journey through national parks is a picture of you and your Smokey the Bear hat and outfit on the cover, and just some incredible, scenery from, the nation’s parks behind you. I want to talk first about your very first assignment.

This is going to bore a lot of listeners. I don’t care. I want to know about any way you lived at Appomattox Court in the actual house. Where? On site where the civil War ended. You step into that house? What was your first thought?

David Vela: Yeah. So we, we lived, my wife and I and our young daughter, lived in the home of, the district clerk at the time, Mr. Pierce. In fact, everything in the house was original, you know, the flooring and everything else. And after Lee surrendered to Grant, the Confederate forces were paroled and literally stacked their arms on the old Richmond Richmond, road, literally right by our house and the white picket fence.

And we were the only I was the the the supervisory park ranger. That was the chief ranger that lived in the village. And I had another ranger that lived a little bit further down. But to be able to walk down those same roads, to my office in the historic village, was quite the experience. But.

David Martin: We were really careful when you’re inside the house at all times.

David Vela: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Going into the McQueen house where the surrender took place, a lot of people, including me, full transparency. When we first pulled up, to the park for the first time, I was expected to go into the courthouse. Yeah, and see a table. Well, we sat there, and I sat there. Didn’t happen that way, as you know.

Yeah. Surrender took place in the village of Appomattox Courthouse in the McLean House. And that story is equally compelling. Wilmer McLean. How he actually witnessed the first shots, at Bull Run and basically said, this ain’t for us. Moved to Appomattox. And four years later, it literally ends in this parlor right across. Fascinating story. But probably, like many Americans, I never knew that story.

But going into the parlor and seeing that where it happened, was, was quite the experience.

David Martin: One of the things that shines through in your book throughout your book is just the the awe and the pride and, the just the quest for knowledge and experience, you know, across all the assignments that you had throughout America, you were in Washington, in New York, in, the Grand Tetons, where you served as the director, in Texas, where you worked, one at one of those.

The only, I guess, Mexican War memorial sites. You know, I mean, was every day just like, wow, look at me.

David Vela: Yeah. You know.

David Martin: Picture history, place where I.

David Vela: Started. Yeah, it really started on our first trip to the national park in the late 1960s, 70s, which was Grand Teton. We had never been to a national park. And it really that sense of exploration really began on that first trip. And as I say, the rest is history. But for some reason, I had this strong desire, to learn more about not only myself as an American and as a Latino, but clearly our nation’s history.

And that started, in my first assignment in the missions in San Antonio. We were actually the first permanent staff in the early 80s to open up this new national historical park, which is now a Unesco World Heritage Site. And it really began there. And then to APA Maddox. So I learned Spanish colonial history, I learned Civil War history.

I learned revolutionary colonial history and independence. A national Snorkel park, us-mexican War, and of course, contemporary history, as well as our natural heritage, founding Grand Teton, and, and other places. As a regional director, I had over 66 national parks to include the Everglades and the Great Smoky Mountains and all the parks in Puerto Rico and the Caribbean.

So it was really, an opportunity for me to learn more about myself, but also about our nation’s history, and our ongoing efforts of becoming a more perfect union.

David Martin: So all of those history classes at Texas A&M didn’t exactly pay off because what I’ve learned about Texas.

David Vela: Is just kind of whet the appetite. But no, I mean, for me, I always wondered, for example, and the Civil War, what role did my Latino ancestors play? Because there’s very little narrative, in historical text. And it wasn’t till I got to Appomattox and later became a regional director during the sesquicentennial Civil War, when we we did publications on, Hispanics in the Civil War, from battlefield A home for women, the Civil War, Native Americans, Asian Americans, the Civil War.

There were so much about my own Latino history and culture. And that’s because of the National Park Service and Eastern National, which, manages a lot of our bookstores and produces products, national parks east of the Mississippi River.

David Martin: I want to go back to the beginning. You signed on as a Junior Ranger. I learned in your book, and one of your first assignments as a junior Ranger was, working at the DeSoto Memorial in Florida. In costume? Yes.

David Vela: Yeah, yeah. So it was while I was at Texas A&M. David. And, of course, we have many, many seasonal, National Park Service employees which are greatly valued and needed. And one of my professors said, hey, Dave, Park Service is looking for, Spanish speaking rangers in Florida. Are you interested? And I’m going. Yeah, absolutely.

Long story short, we move. I was 19, David. That was my first oath of office. That I pledge allegiance to the Constitution. I was 19 years old, and my job was to, dress as a Spanish conquistador and, fire period weapons, an octopus and a crossbow. They cooked my food over an open fire, as they did, you know, simple stuff like beans and rice and, it was 19 years old.

Man, what a blast to be able to get paid, right? You know, to, do the work we were doing at age 19. But again, that was all part of my learning about my own Latino history and heritage.

David Martin: And then at one point, you stepped out and went to work for Health and Human Services as investigator. So you got some experience doing that? We talked about the fact that you worked at the only Mexican War Museum park in and, Texas. And also you presided over the Blue Ridge Parkway. I probably traveled about 100 miles on the Blue Ridge Parkway.

So thank you for that. And, Grand Teton, you served as director there? Is that the. That is the jewel of the Park Service, is it not?

David Vela: Well, first, in so many ways, you know, it was for me. It was so special. Very. Because that’s the first Park National park ever saw. And 40 years later, I would become the 21st superintendent of that very first park. You know, it’s like as I talk around the country, at, conferences, and in colleges, universities around the country, I talk about all it takes is one, one experience in a national park and who knows what that experience will do for you and for me, for our two children, and my wife, for 45 years, it was life changing because we raised two kids in our national parks.

And that was that was quite a blessing as well. So it was truly transformative.

David Martin: And one of your daughters is in the Park Service now.

David Vela: So our son, is a chief ranger, in one of our parks in Florida.

David Martin: Wow. Do you visit often?

David Vela: Oh, yeah.

David Martin: Where is he? In Florida?

David Vela: He’s, he’s in the Everglades.

David Martin: That’s fun. Does he get to come here? But he’s got three.

David Vela: Boys and his wife. Very much spent a lot of time in the parks. And, as I did our two children and my wife, he’s raising his three boys and his wife, in our national parks.

David Martin: So I want to read this. I want to talk about the parks a little bit. There’s a Western writer who says is quoted as the national parks are, quote, absolutely American. And the best idea we ever had.

David Vela: Absolutely. Wallace Stegner. So true, because they reflect who we are, David, as a nation, they’re part of our national birthright. You remember vividly, you know, when when unfortunately, 9/11 took place, many Americans went to their national parks to the Statue of Liberty, to the Liberty Bell, to Independence Hall, to battlefields to reconnect with those American values.

That we have as Americans. And it gets to, to Wallace’s point that there are places of reflection where you can go and heal and renew and, enjoy the backcountry, enjoy history, and learn more about it. They truly are the essence of who we are as a nation. And I suspect with the two 50th anniversary as well, Americans will we’ll continue to do that to reconnect with who we are as Americans and who we are as a nation.

David Martin: And and I you know, I you can explain this better than I, but, I mean, national parks include everything. I’m in New York City, there’s a national park, in Battery Park, right by Liberty State, you know, right by the Statue of Liberty there’s down in Florida. You know, there’s, the Everglades, you’ve got the Grand Tetons, Glacier National Park, you so many, you know, I mean, there’s everything you could imagine in America.

There’s a national park to that, right?

David Vela: Yeah, that’s that’s a good point that a lot of folks that, may get confused, but, you know, I think of national parks, there are many different, designations, but we’re all lumped in together, and that’s perfectly fine. So you have national seashores, national recreation areas, you have national historical sites, national historical parks. And a lot of people don’t know that the white House is a unit of the National Park Service as well.

So you have so many different designations that make up the National Park System. And America’s best idea.

David Martin: I read there’s 325 million visitors, national parks, and monuments every year that spend almost 26.4 billion in the community and in the region. How big is.

David Vela: That? It’s huge. It is, for every dollar that’s invested, you get a 12 to 15% return on that investment, existing Grand Teton and Yellowstone alone. You just take those two parks, which are neighbor parks, two point $2,000,000,000 billion and economic revenue directly to the gateway communities that surround in in that region. So national parks also, folks, know there’s too many of the the larger national parks have lodges.

So and so they provide goods and services. So they provide employment opportunities within the national parks, the gateway communities, thousands upon thousands of jobs that support that tourism, are generated in gateway communities. They’re huge economic generators, but also quality of life, in the region. And there’s so many tangibles and intangibles because national parks exist in the United States.

David Martin: What’s your favorite park?

David Vela: You know, I was able to get away from answering that question when I was running the Park Service, because at that time, I had 419 favorite parks. But I can’t. Your favorite part? I get away with it anymore.

David Martin: No.

David Vela: You can’t. And so, David, clearly, I think Grand Teton for me, because that park literally changed my life.

David Martin: If you were going to send somebody to a park, they’ve never been to a park. Where would you tell them to start?

David Vela: Yeah, I that’s a good question. The first thing I’d ask them is what do you finding out? Okay. You know, are you. And here’s the thing to what you may think of, a national park is just a cultural site or just a natural site. Actually, there’s no such thing there. Combined. You would think that the only Us-Mexican war property in the national park system, Palo Alto Battlefield National Historical Park, which I ran, was a cultural historical site.

It’s a national natural site as well. U.S. forces won the first battle because of its natural terrain and how they were able to use the geology to be effective. So that’s the first question. What do you want to learn? Okay. And the second is, how much time do you have left?

David Martin: All right. The last park I went to is the, new River Gorge in West Virginia. Oh.

David Vela: Nice place.

David Martin: Yeah. And it was. It was it was cool. They had a driving, driving trail and you sort of went around the whole thing, and it was, you know, a mining trail, and you sort of follow the mining route, you know, take the coal out. So, and it’s beautiful on Little High for me, but that’s okay. And then I parked my car at one point and did one of the little walks into the woods.

So, you know, like, I’ve been a new river gorge. Tell folks a park that would surprise them.

David Vela: Ooh. That’s a good question.

David Martin: Like, I live in New York City and Teddy Roosevelt’s birthplace is a national park. Yeah. And it’s a it’s a it’s a townhouse brownstone, in the middle of town. But, you know, give me another example. I saved you there. For what?

David Vela: Yeah. Yeah. You did, surprising. I would say, you know, independence, National Historical Park, which is bigger than just the Liberty Bell and Independence Hall. Yeah, yeah, I have the first Bank of the United States. You have a second Bank of the United States. You. That is to restore national memorial. Who was, you know, a Polish, war hero during the war.

And so the, the small ish unit is home, is there, which is part of the park. Dolley Madison. Todd and Bishop white House, you know, it’s there. You have so, so many historical and cultural icons just in one national historical park. And, and that’s one of those places where you need to have some time to, to really enjoy.

David Martin: All right, well, actually, I’m going to Philadelphia this summer, so I hope, I hope, I hope to be able to stop by, as we know, there are cuts that are being faced. In the National park system. In fact, you, signed a letter with others who addressed it to the new Department of the interior. I want to read something.

It says additional reductions in funding will further decrease the ability of park managers to effectively manage national parks for the benefit of the American public. What’s going on? What are you concerned about?

David Vela: Yeah. So, David, so I was proud to sign, along with, other former, directors and deputy directors, you know, you know, associate directors, that work in headquarters, a bipartisan letter. There are two the secretary of the interior reminding, the Department of the interior, the mandates of the Organic Act. And so there was an edict that basically came out, and I’m paraphrasing, that just talked about the visitor experience and that should be the predominant use of our resources.

Ensure that folks have a safe and enjoyable visit and experience. No one disagrees with that. Absolutely no one disagrees with that. But that’s only the first tenet in the Organic Act which created the National Park Service. An equally important tenet are the resources themselves cultural, natural, historical resources, treasures that are equally important, and by law, have to be maintained as well.

So when you cut archeologists, when you cut research scientist, biologist and, and all the objects that you find, not only in the federal government but in the National Park Service, you severely limit the Park Service’s ability to protect that component from the Organic Act, which is why the National Park Service was created. So the letter was a reminder that, look, you can’t have one without the other, right?

And so that’s that’s the purpose. But again, I’m proud of the fact that my colleagues, former colleagues, bipartisan, just reminder, wanted to remind the Department of the interior that, look, we we were fortunate to play a leadership roles for hundreds of, combined experience among ourselves, as just a reminder of you cannot have one objective without the other.

David Martin: In your letter, you say a record 331.9 million visitors went to national parks in 2020, for an increase of 6.36 million people. I guess they’re popular.

David Vela: I extremely I mean, when you look at Grand Teton a way, you know, our season, it wasn’t long because of winter.

David Martin: Okay.

David Vela: When you packed. Oh, we packed over 4 million people, you know, within a 6 to 8 month period. That’s a lot of folks. That’s the good news. But the challenge is, is that the impact on the resource itself of why people come some examples are, you know, in the backcountry because there’s so many people creating scarring and social trails as they go up towards the Grand Teton.

And in the backcountry. Litter is another example. And so those types of the many other examples really impact the visitor experience as well. So the good news is that the world, although now to a lesser extent, but literally coming to to visit our national parks around the country in the territories. But at the same time, the visitor management concerns, the resource degradation of the visitor experience.

Also are some of those impacts. And now when you reduce our ability by way of a reduction of staffing and capacity, it’s going to put a huge strain on those very resources that make up America’s best idea. So, there are some serious challenges that our, our, our, you know, our federal public land management agencies are facing not only the Park Service, but specifically the Park Service.

David Martin: Are you concerned?

David Vela: Yes, sir. I am, I’m concerned, but but I’m also optimistic. There are the American people who a lot of people don’t know, the history of many national parks. It’s the American public themselves that said, hey, this place needs to be protected, right? And they would use their financial and their voice and other capacities to, inform the administration over many, many decades in the Congress.

And so grassroots support, all the different advocacy organizations are playing a very critical role to remind folks about what these impacts are. And, and to the resources and the research periods.

David Martin: So I saw this recently, Arches National Park in Utah, has, stopped Ranger led tours, fossil Beds National Park in Colorado is closed Monday and Tuesday. I think Pinnacle National Park in California had canceled the summer ranger program. Great Smoky Mountains has canceled campground and, and picnic areas. What does this mean?

David Vela: It means that for one, that it it will also have an impact on, because there’s so many or fewer people to, you know, provide for the health and safety of visitors, it could conceivably impact that. You know, sanitation, is clearly a concern if the restrooms can’t be cleaned, that poses a health risk, but also to, you know, I think it is just that’s not what we’re about, you know, in the National Park Service, you know, we want we want facilities to be accessible.

We want them to be clean, properly maintained. When you go to a national park, we hope, as you explained to me earlier, David, you we want you to talk to a national park ranger or a volunteer that’s trained to, to help aid in that experience. But if that’s not available to you, that directly impacts the quality of our experience.

And that’s not what we’re about. We’ve never been about that. Now, granted, over the years, yes, we’ve had, you know, opportunities are are sadly where our budgets just don’t meet those, those high fixed costs, but we still provide it as best as we could. Now, when you eliminate the positions and you reduce the budget, the authorized budget of the Park Service and the amount that’s being proposed, David, that’s not sustainable.

David Martin: Are we in danger of losing some parks there?

David Vela: There are calls for units of the National Park Service to be given over to states. And I gotta tell you, David, I have a I pride in myself and working with all segments of, of government, local, state, clearly federal or federal community. And I spent a lot of time with our state partners. Many of our state parks around the country, really struggled to fund what they are responsible for maintaining and performing.

So how can they, with everything that currently have and they’re doing the best that they can and God bless them for, how can they maintain a national asset no matter how small it may be? That’s just not feasible. You possible. But then also to folks, your audience knows this, that national parks are created by Congress. So any decisions to make that happen has to have involvement of Congress.

Okay. With the exception of national monuments, which are provided by the president through the Antiquities Act, that that’s another conversation. But if that were to happen with units of the National Park Service, that’s not something that happens overnight. And I frankly cannot see other entities, especially our state partners, and friends absorbing any of that.

David Martin: There’s talk of, of of drilling and mining on public lands, of reducing public lands. What is it? Bears. Bears ears is talked about being shrunk in size. You know, what kind of effect does this have on the park system overall? I mean, we there are acres and acres and acres, especially out west of lots of parkland. You know, if we lose a few acres here and there, does it matter?

David Vela: Well, there’s a lot of, federal public land, out, out west. You have other interior agencies, Bureau reclamation, Bureau land management, clearly, in agriculture, U.S. Forest Service. So there are there are a lot of, federal lands, but they were established for specific reasons. And that’s where the use and enjoyment, but also there are opportunities for mining in federal lands.

There’s some examples. A couple in national parks, that are preserves that had original mining, activity before they became units of the Park Service. And they’ve kind of been grandfathered in. But that’s a very, very small percentage. That takes place, if they know the history, granite at Grand Canyon National Monument, which Teddy Roosevelt established, Teddy Roosevelt was very clear about mining interests.

That’s one of the reasons why, you know, he established the monument later became a national park. And so our nation’s greatest conservation president realized and recognized that there are just some places in our nation that definitely need to be set aside. Others are more suitable, others are not.

David Martin: You spent 38 years in public service. You probably could have, you know, ducked out there at different points in your career and, doubled your salary. But you didn’t, and you inspired. You wanted your son to become a national park ranger as well. What kept you in public service all these years?

David Vela: Yeah, I get my, that’s a really good question that my parents, who are my greatest role models. My dad passed away five years ago. He and his brothers proudly served in the United States Navy. They always impressed upon me, and my two younger siblings. Take on causes greater than yourself. And. And so for me, after the experience of Grand Teton and seeing that Ranger for the first time, getting ready to go on backcountry patrol with a horse and a Winchester rifle, I don’t know what that dude did, but I wanted to learn more and I had the opportunity to do that.

So for me, public service was serving my country in a civilian capacity. And the National Park Service seven years with the state attorney General’s office as well. And, so for me, it was just the greatest opportunity to do that again, to take on causes greater than ourselves. We’re eight grandchildren, and we impress upon our eight grandchildren that same motto, that you can serve your country in many different ways as a volunteer in the military and civilian world.

And, I was blessed to have that opportunity. And now in retirement, Dave, I serve on seven national nonprofit boards that have a direct and indirect connection to the National Park Service. So I guess you can say that in the last five years, I’m still trying to figure out retirement. But, you know, try to still be engaged as best as I can.

David Martin: What are you hearing from those? You said you’re a member of seven boards that are still have ties to the National Park Service. What are you hearing from the people in the field?

David Vela: It’s it’s, it’s hard for me to put into words that just last week, I was at a national outside, festival and, and summit and I had a federal, employee that was just released. And I gotta tell you, David, it was ten minutes of just raw emotion. And and basically she was telling me her story, and she said, you know.

Mr.. Well, do you have any advice? And my response was, after I embrace her and told her, you know, a couple things. I said, well, first of all, thank you for your service. I second don’t give up hope that, there is an army of supporters of like minded people like myself that understand what you’re going through, that are supporter of, that, are advocating, you know, with Congress for their own members of Congress that are writing letters of support that are engaged in these conversations.

So you’re not in it alone. And especially, you know, David, for some of my former employees that call or send the emails and, you know, Dave, you know, what can you tell? And, I just I can’t tell you how many nights I lose sleep because I don’t know what else to say other than that, that you are truly in my thoughts and prayers and know that other people that support you stay the course.

Don’t lose hope. And thank you again for your service.

David Martin: Describe a typical park ranger. Well, what are they like? You know, what’s the average park ranger like? Why do they get into it? What? What what motivates them and draws them into it?

David Vela: I think it’s this, this, this passion to serve. David. I think that has a lot to do with it. And also, like me, is to want to learn more about my history of my country, through our national parks and for me especially a lot about my, like, the, you know, history, which I did at the Soto National Memorial at some point on your missions at gas fields and Marcos National Monument, in San Augustine, Florida.

And as a side, Chavez, and other places, is to want to learn more about our country. You want to learn maybe more about their own history and heritage. But I think it’s just this commitment to serve and to be part of the federal community. You know, I, I know those were my motivations. Yeah. I think my son would say the same thing, but I think at a at the core, I think those are the principles of of folks wanting to be biologists and archeologists and facilities managers, etc. the National Park Service.

David Martin: One of the things that I read in your book was you looked at who was attending and who was coming to the national parks, and you try to open that up to different people, different walks of Americans that not necessarily are regular, visitors to the national parks and also, park rangers, park employees. You looks like you tried to open that up as well.

Were you successful? Do you feel like you managed an impact there?

David Vela: I think I think that the Park service, you know, I look at former directors, former director Hartzog, was one of my champions. You know, he was the one, David, that brought in urban areas into the national park system. And one of the reasons why is because that’s where the people. Okay, you know, and, and you mentioned earlier your own personal experiences in New York City.

That’s one of the examples, you know, so many of my predecessors, you know, thought about how do we how do we embrace the nation, and, and add to the national park system. That’s one example. But for me personally, it was, you know, wanting to make sure that every American had the opportunity to know what I do want to have a chance to work in places like this.

And so, many folks before me, championed those causes. And what we did is we took those best ideas and, and developed coalition support inside and outside the Park Service. And and tried to move the needle. You know, an example you may remember in my book was George Melendez, right? George Melendez. Right. Was the first Latino, biologist, chief biologist in the National Park Service.

It’s I think it’s chapter 1 or 2 of my book. Yeah. The reason why I wanted to start it there was he influenced me and his science. David still applies today, and he funded much of the science that he generated out of his own pocket science, such as, hey, you know, it may not be a good idea to feed grizzly bears, you know?

And guess what? That’s the tenet for our, you know, much of our better science today. You know, they need the natural environment. They don’t need to be you know, looking at humans as a potential food source and being fed, that was him. And, and the work of of those that he worked with. But he was Latino, and, and so for me, too, I want to talk about the George Melendez rights, and the Native American champions, like Gerard Baker, who was featured on Ken Burns is, America’s best idea.

Who’s one of the champions in the Park Service. And his brother page, they were both superintendents. Gerard was superintendent Mount Rushmore. So that our indigenous, brothers and sisters can say, hey there, these are your champions of the Park Service. You know, you want to be like them, and know that there are opportunities to do that.

So, yes, I think collectively, we were able to to move the needle. We several ways to go in the Park Service. But I think my concern today, Dave, is that based on recent executive orders, if we’re only only able to share one narrative and not multiple narratives, that may limit our ability to ensure that there’s equal opportunity, equal access to not only the storytelling, but for the opportunity to tell the stories in our nation’s national parks.

David Martin: What would you tell someone who wanted to become a park ranger, or wanted to get into the National Park Service, or even into federal government? What would you tell them today?

David Vela: Yeah, I had that conversation probably hundreds of times over. You know, my career in the Park Service, it it was much more difficult when we began, you know, back in the 70s, for every one vacancy or probably three or 4 or 500, applicants, you know, there’s not as many today. It’s just the timing of it.

It just took time. And so during that time, many of us, like me, we became seasonal park rangers. Or you would volunteer to get, you know, that experience and and make yourself marketable. That was the way we used to do it. Now those positions are cut. Not only in the Park Service, but across the federal government, you know, and, and administrations have that right.

Don’t get me wrong. They have that right to make those decisions. But the question I’m being asked today is day. Should I waste my time pursuing a federal job? Right. That my responses do your homework, do your homework. And, and what I’m hearing, too, is that the personnel policies may be changing as well.

And so keep your options open. I would never, never tell anyone. Don’t look at the federal government. Because that would be disingenuous of me. Because my life was the federal government. But my advice is do your homework. Where do you want to work? And keep all your options open. But most importantly, make yourself marketable for those opportunities.

David Martin: All right. Well, good advice. That was the easy part. Coming up, we’re going to ask you the hard questions about working your government. Are you are you ready.

David Vela: Start start looking forward to it.

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So we have our good government show questionnaire, which I often ask of people in elected offices. But this will be an interesting take. Talking to the former director of the National Park Service define good government.

David Vela: Well, for me, and David, not only was I that I work in state government, but in federal government, but I was also a two term local elected official. So I had I had a run in politics. So for me, good government falls on three basic tenets transparency, accountability and excellent.

David Martin: Excellent. That can’t be.

David Vela: Easy. Yeah. Excellence for me is if if what you’re you’re looking at, whether it’s a policy statement, or a directive is not working. And you can define what successes, then you change it to make sure that it works. Because every policy, every budget, every action should withstand public scrutiny. And if it doesn’t, you need to you need to reassess the challenge that I’ve seen, David, in my career at 38 years in public services, that didn’t always happen.

You know, you had some folks had this attitude. Well, I’m the policymaker. And so this is the way it’s going to work. That’s not a good attitude to have. But if you constantly keep an open mind and you continue to assess that, then your probability of success increases because you have an open mind and you’re listening.

David Martin: So if people are want to support national parks and the National Park Service and want to fight the 30% cut in the budget that’s being proposed, what should they do?

David Vela: Absolutely. And we we spoke about this at the conference last week is use your voice. I truly believe in having a local elected official. Politics are local. And you hear that all the time. But I’ve seen that firsthand. That includes everything from policy development. You know, when we have environmental assessments or environmental impact statements, there is a required community engagement.

And that community could be the nation, where you get public input. And many times you may be thinking about a certain perspective of, and then you hear multiple perspectives that maybe you didn’t think about, or maybe it validates what you were thinking about, as you had these these public meetings. So whether it’s policy, whether it’s budget, getting hold of your local elected official starts there, and then your members of Congress who have the ultimate say on the president’s budget.

But it’s powerful when you get, you know, your local elected officials, your state officials, you know, discussing these interests with the members of Congress, and they speak with a unified voice. That’s a pretty powerful narrative.

David Martin: So you talked about the fact that you ran for office. What made you decide that your goal was actually to be a the director of the National Park Service, now president, United States,

David Vela: You know, it wasn’t by design. It really was done by Texas.

David Martin: I don’t know where you were, where you’re aiming.

David Vela: Yeah. I mean, I you know, I mentioned earlier about seeing that Ranger, in law enforcement, ready to get ready to go back. Country patrol day. That’s all I wanted to do. And and I was blessed to have that opportunity put on that weapon and to serve and protect. But then it was an opportunity to be a division chief, and then it was an opportunity to be a superintendent.

I’m like, okay, that’s it. Okay. Super tight. Well, that’s a big deal. Yeah. I’m running the National park. But then it was an opportunity to be a regional director running 66 national parks. I’m like, man, I can’t do that. I like what I’m doing. Well, when I left to go back to Washington, when I was running President Johnson’s ranch in the Hill country of Texas and working directly with Lady Bird, Johnson was like, why would I want to leave that shot to move up the chain of command for a Texas boy?

David Martin: Why would I leave Texas the rest of I’m in Texas. Leave me alone.

David Vela: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I’m I’m at home in barbecue. But that one opportunity. Open another door. Another door and and and frankly, when we got the gig at the Grand Teton, I remember telling my wife, I bet that’s, you know, hey, we’re back where we started. Yeah. Why would you want to leave us until Washington calls and said, Secretary of interior wants to talk to you.

And then you go and and then the rest is, you know, what we talked about. So never had any intention of be joining the National Park Service. All I wanted to do was to be that law enforcement ranger. But doors of opportunity open, and you have to decide in this case with my wife for 45 years whether we’re going to walk through that door.

And I’m glad we walked through that door together. And, it was an experience of a lifetime.

David Martin: Did you always see yourself working in public service, or did you at one point, like, get a business degree or, or CPA?

David Vela: Yeah. Yeah.

David Martin: Actually.

David Vela: Yeah. Yeah, I think it mainly was more because of my dad, you know, his service in the Navy, I had was really two options. I was interested and, and maybe being an offshore patrol in the United States Navy, kind of following, in my dad’s footsteps, and my uncle’s. Okay, till we made that trip to the Grand Teton and Yellowstone, and that changed.

David Martin: Wow. All right. No Navy,

David Vela: No. David, what would.

David Martin: You like people to know about the National Park Service? They probably don’t know.

David Vela: That you can live and work and these special places and learn something about yourself. Not only what it is to be an American, but yourself. You can do genealogy so far. I’ll tell you a quick story. When I was at Appomattox Courthouse, we, in the in the actual courthouse itself, we maintained all the parole records, but, other Confederate forces that were paroled and.

David Martin: Everybody who was there for.

David Vela: Everyone that was there had to write.

David Martin: Their names. Yes, sir.

David Vela: Absolutely. That was paroled after the surrender terms were signed. We had them in books, and many times folks would come up to the desk, front desk, and I’d be, you know, there at the front desk and said, let’s a ranger, I think my ancestors were here. And I said, oh, okay. Well, what say where are you from?

You know, do you happen to know what unit they were from? And sometimes they did, sometimes they didn’t and said, okay, let’s work on the last name. David. Probably eight times out of ten. Yeah. We find their ancestor there.

David Martin: Wow. That’s what we would call the actual book and show.

David Vela: They were, a compilation of those that were paroled. We make a copy of it. Yeah. And then we’d say your ancestor was here and we give him a copy of it. Wow. Do you imagine the emotional experience that they had that they were on the very grounds that their ancestors were that fought during the Civil War North, and it was awful.

That’s what it’s like. So any you mentioned earlier, two like your experience with a Ranger, how they made that connection right with you. And and, and I think a lot of it goes into, hey, I want to share with you what I know as a ranger, but I also want you to continue doing your research. Right. And so it’s that human connection that folks in the Park Service really enjoy.

And, as I did, I’ll never forget that experience. Or when someone comes in to, as they did in the missions in San Antonio, which are active parishes, and many of the descendants still live in that community. When you would talk to them, they would say, well, I didn’t know that man, that that is that is, you know, like someone give you $100 bill for you make that connection for them.

And they walk away saying, man, I’m glad I came. You know, you can’t put a price tag on that. I had many experiences like that.

David Martin: I don’t know how you’re going to answer this question, but I ask this question of elected officials. What was the best part of your job?

David Vela: The best part of my job was just knowing that I represented whether you voted for me or not, because I actually was in a district where you voted for me to not or not, I had the opportunity to represent you, although I was a school board trustee, elected to chair, my first election, I won by 20 votes.

Okay. But the second election, I ran unopposed. But I would get phone calls at 10:00 at night, say, hey, dude, my water got cut off, and, or my electric bill, you know, I’ve got some issues and I’d say, well, that’s a city issue, and that’s a city council person’s job. But I tell you what.

But it’s got nothing to do with being a school board trustee. I enjoy doing that. That’s public service.

David Martin: What are you concerned about, especially now? What are you concerned about with the national parks?

David Vela: I’m concerned that we are losing institutional knowledge as a result of the over 2000 employees that are no longer with us at every level of the organization, especially at the senior executive level. And, as a senior executive, do, we’re you’re a we’re all apolitical. And this is the other thing I talk about a lot in the book, is that, you know, you could have political passions, as I do, but when you walk into that office, you leave it at in the car, okay?

It’s about public service. And, and so the institutional knowledge that no longer there at every level, headquarters, regional offices, and now the parks folks are retiring. They took the fork in the road option and their long earlier no longer there. So the institutional knowledge we’re losing second. But, I’m concerned about the fact that the Park Service is not able to fill positions right now.

I’m concerned about the narrative about, you can only talk about these narratives, but you can’t talk about these other narratives, which are equally important, and the value of concern about that. I’m concerned about the potential degradation of the very resources for which the park Service is entrusted to protect. I’m concerned about the quality of the visitor experience now, because you’re going to have folks will be aware, we’re going to talk to you, as we used to.

And granted, we had budget problems before challenges, but even more so today. So there are a number of concerns. I’m also concerned too, that frankly, the, the the international travel numbers are dropping. And I say that because we learn so much from those international visitors. I remember a grant we had before Covid, David, Jewish, visitation from, from Asia, and we learned some valuable lessons.

One of those lessons is we had, a bus as an example that I today. I could tell you when they were coming to Yellowstone or the Yellowstone, or vice versa. Anyway, long story short, the bus overturned. Oh. Got one person in that bus. Slow or not, even the not. Excuse me, spoke English. They all spoke Mandarin, including the driver of 100 employees that I had.

I didn’t have a single ranger. That’s for Mandarin with the exception of the spouse. And so lights and sirens. We were taking folks to the hospital because she spoke the language. She was able to communicate with the doctors, and more than likely saved lives. So the more of that story was we learned a valuable lesson that are materials that are building to truly understand the cultures that are coming.

They have not. The language is important. And so we learned a valuable lesson. So not only are you so you’re starting to see that reduction in world travel, but also to, you know, you hired employees not only to reflect the nation, languages, cultures and understanding of those communities, but the world as well. And we’re not going to have that ability because of the cuts.

And if we were to provide for those that come domestically and internationally. So I think it’s a it’s a series of concerns that I have frankly addressed. Keep me up at night when I hear these stories directly from my former colleagues. But I also am optimistic that through to the voice of the American people, that, it will resonate and, the folks will better understand and, and positions of decision making, what those impacts are.

David Martin: So I know that national parks have lodges, and you can stay in a lodge on the park. What is your what is your favorite lodge to go to if you’re going to take me? Go, David, we’re going to the park. Here’s where we’re going to go. We’re going to stay at this lodge. And when we’re there, what’s the thing?

We have to have the best local dish out there.

David Vela: Well, for me, Grand Teton, I was staying in the superintendent’s residence.

David Martin: All right. Think I can stay there? So, you know.

David Vela: That’s not open to the public. All right, we’re doing it. I’m not kidding, Matt. Every every view at our room in our house had a view of the grand view. How? It was spectacular. I mean, there’s so many, you know, I’ve stayed, you know, in Grand Canyon, I stayed there, I didn’t stay in the lodges and of course, in Grand Teton, but I spent a lot of time.

And, I will tell you that any lodge that you go to, the national park, the concession community, they’re rock stars. I mean, they own the stewardship narrative. And so they will make it and their employees a quality visitor experience. I truthfully, I’ve only stated just a couple, and, Grand Canyon. But, I would encourage, you know, any lodge, you know, they take pride in what they do.

We’re very much a part of the visitor experience. So my own two experiences were in Grand Canyon, and they were both great.

David Martin: All right. And what do we have, a Grand Canyon. What’s the dish there? What do I have? What’s the local thing?

David Vela: Well, you have the, you have the ones on the South Rim. Yeah. Every morning on the South Rim. I would recommend, names. Escapes me right now, but, because it’s been decades since I stay there. But, yeah, any of them on the South Rim, and frankly, an Indian national park, you know, they’re they’re quality experiences, and they were phenomenal partners.

David Martin: And, you’re you’re in Texas. I’ve got to ask you the question. You’re going out. You’re going out for a meal. You have a Tex-Mex or barbecue?

David Vela: Man, that’s close, dude, because in Texas.

David Martin: I.

David Vela: You know, they’re they’re synonymous. You know, it was the liquor girls, you know, the Mexican, you know, cowboys that, they created the, the barbecue tradition. So there’s there’s kind of some similarities there, but. Right. Okay. It really depends.

David Martin: A little bit that.

David Vela: Yeah. Yeah. You know, probably our prior first priority, probably Mexican food.

David Martin: Okay.

David Vela: Call us shortly by Texas barbecue, followed.

David Martin: Shortly by Texas barbecue. Tell me something about the National Park Service and the work that goes on there that people don’t know about. They would be surprised to hear about.

David Vela: Yeah. No, that’s a great question. There are a lot of national program offices that folks will never, never see, but they’re all experience. You know, for example, the National Register program, is is to help, identify, you know, with, partners of interest, you know, historical places and sites, landmarks. There’s a River trails conservation assistance program which help communities, build capacity, for example, take old railroad lines and help convert them into pathways.

And, for use and enjoyment. You have, you know, cultural historical programs, and other programs that, you know, provide technical advice, to communities of interest, governments, as an example, and the National Affairs office that works with, you know, with our treaty obligations with foreign countries, that the American public may not know about, but it’s a critical role to share America’s best idea with the world.

And so there’s many, many examples, of folks. But sadly, David, those offices have also been hit very hard. Very hard as well.

David Martin: All right. Well, this is the good government show. We like to end this on a, a on an up note. Give me an example of some good government program that you were able to, you know, move forward when you were a national parks director.

David Vela: Yeah. I think that, during which is when I was, running the Park Service, you know, President Trump, and, and Congress, passed the, the Great American Outdoors Act, which is critical in which they will help to, you know, address billions of dollars in deferred maintenance, and related programs, you know, as a result of that, you know, that’s that’s one, you know, law that continues to, you know, provide benefits, to national parks.

I think, you know, our, our, our national youth program, is, is extremely important to help inspire and promote the next generation, workforce, but also advocates and what we do, in the National Park Service. But I think for me, is just the takeaway that I have is the love by the American people of their national parks.

I think that helped to sustain us. Folks on the front lines, sadly, I had folks on the front lines that died in line of duty serving and protected, that were injured severely in the line of duty, serving and protecting America’s best idea, the love of the National Park Service by the American people is something that I will never take for granted, but we’ll always recognize, and appreciate, having worked, in the National Park Service.

David Martin: David Vela, the former director of the National Park Service, America’s best idea and the author of all our Ranger Eddie, has been a pleasure talking with you and I would just say to anybody, if you’re thinking about getting into public service, if you’re thinking about working with the Park Service, if you’re thinking about working for the government and you want to be inspired, pick up a copy of the Ranger, there’ll be a link on our website.

Just an incredible experience, reading it and reading about your experience. Thank you so much. And, good luck. And, please keep an eye out on national parks. We need.

David Vela: You. Thank you. David, thank.

David Martin: You very much.

David Martin: County government affects more people than any other form of government. That’s why we like talking to so many representatives of county government here on the Good Government show. They are the voice of public service. The National Association of Counties, or Naco, supports all 3069 counties across the USA. This year, their annual conference is in Philadelphia in July, planned to attend the conference and join them in their efforts to bring good government to America’s counties.

Check out the details@naco.org. That’s naco.org.

After you get done with this episode, hear more good government stories with our friends at How to Really Run a City for mayors Kasim Reed of Atlanta and Michael Nutter of Philadelphia, and their co-host, journalist and author Larry Platt talk with guests and other mayors about how to really get stuff done in cities around the nation. Check them out where you’re listening now or through their nonprofit news site, The Philadelphia Citizen.

Org slash podcasts.

Imagine looking out any window in your house and seeing the beauty of Grand Teton, or walking past the house where the Civil War ended on the way to your house in 1850s era home inside the town of Appomattox Court House. The entire town. A national historic park where you are the head ranger. Just an incredible career and a career of amazing experiences.

With budget cuts to the National Park Service looming, I hope that people advocating for cuts heard what David said and what he and his fellow senior Parks Department officials had to say. And David said, with so many others in government say, get involved, raise your voice. Speak up for America’s parks. There. Clearly, as David, I think, showed as a nation the best idea we ever had.

Now go make plans to visit a national park. Well, that’s our show. Thanks for listening. Please like us and share us with your friends and review us right here where you’re listening, and check out our website. Good government show.com for extras. Help us keep telling stories of good government and action everywhere. And join us again for another episode right here.

I’m Dave Martin and this is the Good Government show.

The Good Government show is a Valley Park production. Jim Ludlow, Dave Martin, that’s me and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our show is edited and produced by Jason Stershic. Please subscribe, then share and like us and review us. That’s the best way to make sure we’re able to keep telling these stories of our government working for all of us.

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**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.