A New Look at Old Coal Communities

David Martin: This is the good government show.

Dr Mark Sarver: Those communities actually came together to form a regional partnership. So it’s not 3 or 4 counties competing each other. They’re actually working together and figured out a revenue share that makes it very efficient. In addition to being mayor, I’m a professor at Glenville State University in the business department. All the infrastructure is there, but one person didn’t want neighbors, so he balled up all the other lots and we’ll never be able to develop it.

It goes back to the more land you had, the more power you had, which doesn’t really apply these days. But it’s just that mindset of, well, my grandfather farmed this land. The houses there, the old homestead, it’s falling down, but I’m not going to sell it. I mean, grandpa would be upset if I sold the land. A lot of these small communities, people run unopposed year after year.

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David Martin: Coal once it power the nation and coal country, it power the local economies. Today, some of those areas are very hard hit. But there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, but it’s a different tunnel. It’s not a mine, and the light isn’t coming from a miner’s lamp, but a new spirit of new industries and importantly, new hope and a new direction.

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Has listened to the good government know I’ve been talking to many government leaders throughout coal country. It’s an area that’s undergoing a huge transformation. Earlier this year, I was invited to attended a conference in Washington. The National Association of Counties created a forum building resilient economies and coal communities. Breck. I heard a lot of positive progress. A few episodes ago, you heard from Corin Nagy of Giles County, Virginia, who talked about how tourism is having a big impact.

Tourism brings people to the area and it creates jobs. It’s making an economic difference. Plan a trip to new River Gorge in West Virginia and see for yourself. On this episode, I talked with doctor Mark Sarver. He’s the mayor of Glenville, West Virginia, and this is in central northern West Virginia. He headed the forum. He’ll tell you we visited 20 coal communities and took a detailed look at the issues and the challenges the group saw across the nation.

As you will hear, there are programs in place and work is going on. It’s progress and it’s making an impact. So in just a moment, doctor Mark Sarver and look at how they are indeed building resilient economies in coal communities.

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Download The Royal Cousins now on Kindle. It’s powerful, timely and just $0.99, and all the proceeds support our work here on the Good Government Show. Just search the Royal Cousins on Amazon today. Welcome to the Good Government show, the voice of public service. I’m happy to have with me doctor Mark Sarver who is the mayor of Glenville, West Virginia.

Welcome to the good government.

Dr Mark Sarver: Thank you for having me and enjoy being here.

David Martin: Thank you. We are talking because you just presented at the Building Resilient Economies and Coal Communities Forum, and you headed up this this organization. Just if you could in a word or two, just tell me what this is all about.

Dr Mark Sarver: Great. So, they selected 20 leaders from across the country, from, communities that were impacted by coal and coal closures and, everything related to, power plants, coal mines shutting down and how that impacts, economies. And a lot of those communities are small communities. And so they brought together 20 of us, and for the last two years have been traveling to different places, whether that’s, physically traveling or bringing people in through, webinars to learn about how communities are adapting, how they’re adjusting, and then to be able to take those, practices back to, our communities and nearby communities to, to help offset what’s happening with coal.

David Martin: In a nutshell, what’s going on in these coal communities? I mean, coal is is. Coal production is not what it was. Correct. Ten, 20, 30 years, even five years ago when. So what’s the effect?

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah. So when my grandfather worked in the coal mines, it was, you know, you go in and you didn’t eat much lunch because it made you too thick to crawl in and, and actually dig and blast the coal. So a couple of things have happened. You know, the, the technology related to coal mining, it takes far less, folks to, to actually man coal.

It’s much more efficient, but also just the, the negative perceptions about coal that the clean energy, the moving away from fossil fuels. And so those two things coming together have caused a lot of coal mines to, to shut down and to, to really, have a huge impact on those communities. Those are high paying jobs, and now they’re not there anymore.

David Martin: Right? And I think you said in the forum, we’re here at the National Association of Counties and in the forum that we just attended for coal communities. I think you mentioned you went to visited in one way or another, 20 communities around the country. Where did you go?

Dr Mark Sarver: Oh, so we, first trip was into southern west to some southeast Virginia, and looked at, like Wise County and some of those areas where they are really doing some innovative stuff. The state of the Commonwealth of Virginia, created a huge fund with tobacco settlement money to spur innovation and entrepreneurship and some of the.

David Martin: Things that the use of tobacco money.

Dr Mark Sarver: Great use of tobacco money. And so those communities actually came together to form a regional partnership. So it’s not 3 or 4 counties competing each other. They’re actually working together and figured out a revenue share that makes it very efficient. So, when they’re out recruiting, they say, oh, we’ve got lots of places for you to go, which best fits that, that company that’s moving in.

We were in Wyoming. We were in, north west Colorado. So when you fly in Greg, Colorado to the left, snow. Oh, the big ski resort, in Colorado was is to the right. And it really is a difference between the very wealthy in that, ski community and then those folks and in Craig, they had, you know, coal plants that were shutting down.

And they’ve done some really innovative things. I talk about a food warehouse where they brought in local entrepreneurs and created a restaurant incubator. So for 600 bucks, if you think you’re, you can make your grandmother’s spaghetti and you want to try to have a restaurant, you can do it for 600 bucks a month versus trying to set up a whole restaurant for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And just risking that, that failure.

David Martin: So let’s just look at, you know, the, 20 communities that you went to across the nation. Yes. Some places like Wyoming do not spring to mind as coal country right away. Right. What’s the couple of big things that you’ve noticed in terms of changes that are happening, things that are going on?

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah. Great question. So every community was unique, whether that was you know, in Wyoming and Wyoming is a huge producer of coal and so much of their, state’s revenue relies on, that coal taxation. And, I mean, they’re they’re having shortfalls of 50, 60% of their budget.

David Martin: I know from towns in West Virginia that I’ve been to. Yes, that where they had ten mines and they got revenue from ten mines. They’re down to 2 or 3 mines. Yeah.

Dr Mark Sarver: So that. Yeah.

David Martin: Right. So the revenues cut dramatically because that coal, the coal companies pay the local government a tax for the coal they take out of the ground.

Dr Mark Sarver: Absolutely. And generally they’re good citizens. So if you need a playground, that coal company would would build the playground for the community. Or if you needed a new hospital, they would help with the new hospital. Okay. So not only do you lose the tax revenue, you lose that great corporate citizen, in your community. For example, where we are in Gilmer County, West Virginia, almonds closed years ago.

We’re oil and gas now. But the impacts of coal, people remember when they were coal mines, we remember when those good jobs were there. And so we have to shift our focus to different, whether that’s tourism, whether that’s,

David Martin: Well, let’s talk about that. So what’s happening? What. Give me some. Let let let’s let’s paint a prettier picture.

Dr Mark Sarver: Sure.

David Martin: What’s going what’s going on. And and tell me about some of the changes that you’re seeing.

Dr Mark Sarver: So I think it’s really caused communities to think about entrepreneurship. You know, entrepreneurship, just happened which is not true. You have to have a focused effort. You really have to do things to recruit entrepreneurs to your community and support them. And, so some of the things, like with Food Warehouse are business incubators, allowing those companies, from an entrepreneurship standpoint, to grow and flourish and to help them and really make that conscious effort to build that eco structure for entrepreneurship.

Other things, you know, there are other, you know, in Wyoming, they’re they’re recruiting big companies to come in terrapower. They’re recruiting. Yeah. Small modular nuclear reactor. So they’re still staying in the energy game, but they are just using different forms of energy to do it.

David Martin: You talked about, I think you said I think it was business innovators. Yes. What’s the response been? And are people moving in?

Dr Mark Sarver: They are. West Virginia has what’s called the ascend program. And so it actually pays remote workers to move into these communities in West Virginia, and it gives them stipends. It gives them tax benefits. You get passes to the state parks. I mean, and it really, is a way in is.

David Martin: This a good use of of government money?

Dr Mark Sarver: It is, it is it brings why.

David Martin: Why would you pay someone to move to a state? Why would you give them money? I mean.

Dr Mark Sarver: So what it does is changes the dynamic of your community. And one of the examples in Greenbrier County, the average household, was the average wage was 45,000 bucks. These people that are part of the ascend program, because they’re working for corporations that are paying San Francisco wages, New York wages. But you’re living in Greenbrier County, West Virginia.

Yeah. The average salary was almost $100,000. So, you know. Yeah, double. So now you bring those people into your community, you now have a new tax base. You know, people are spending money, they’re being entrepreneurs.

David Martin: And and how do you manage making it still affordable for the people who live there and grew up there. And then and that’s their home too.

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah. So, it becomes tough. You know, we we’re used to home prices that were really low, particularly in our area of West Virginia. But part of the study that we did with RC was looking at how the lack of modern housing has impacted our ability to recruit professionals to our area. So we have a hospital, we have a university, we have a federal prison.

All of those pay really well, but we have trouble recruiting them. We’re 15 miles off the interstate, which is a beautiful place to be.

David Martin: But close, but not too close.

Dr Mark Sarver: Close but not too close. And you know, we don’t have the Walmart in town, so you have the small businesses, but when you try to get those people, they want that modern house. They want that three bedroom, two and a half bath, 1800 square foot modern house. And we simply don’t have it for a host of reasons.

David Martin: So this is something you jumped into before I was ready. But we’ll we’ll get there now. You recently, completed a study for the Appalachian Regional Commission on Housing, correct? Correct.

Dr Mark Sarver: What.

David Martin: What is your what are your findings?

Dr Mark Sarver: So in, really two counties, around us, Gilmer and Calhoun County.

David Martin: Before let’s let’s define Appalachian Regional Commission. This is a region wide commission. And how many states?

Dr Mark Sarver: 13 states. And it encompasses all the way from New York through Georgia. West Virginia is the only state that is fully within the a RC counties.

David Martin: The entire state. Okay.

Dr Mark Sarver: The entire state is there. And, we participated through, what was called the Appalachian Collegiate Research Initiative. So in addition to being mayor, I’m a professor at Glenville State University in the business department, and we applied and our students actually did the research. It was spurred because my wife and I moved to town to be at the university, and we couldn’t find a house.

And so it just started like we have a housing problem, and some of the locals didn’t think we had a housing problem because they’ve lived there forever.

David Martin: I got a house problem.

Dr Mark Sarver: Exactly, exactly. And so we started looking at what those factors were and we found some common threads. Land hoarding goes all the way back to when Virginia and West.

David Martin: Okay.

Dr Mark Sarver: I live in states.

David Martin: We can’t landlord explain that.

Dr Mark Sarver: So, you know, it went back to being part of the Commonwealth.

David Martin: What’s land hoarding?

Dr Mark Sarver: Getting as much property as you can for you, not for, and one of the examples we use just outside of Glenville, West Virginia, is a subdivision, with 15 estates, has lots in it. And the four houses that are there are half $1 million or $750,000 houses. All the infrastructure’s there. But one person didn’t want neighbors, so he balled up all the other lots.

David Martin: Oh.

Dr Mark Sarver: And we’ll never be able to develop it. It goes back to the more land you had, the more power you had, which doesn’t really apply these days. But it’s just that mindset of, well, my grandfather farmed this land. The houses there, the old homestead, it’s falling down, but I’m not going to sell it. I mean, grandpa would be upset if I sold the land.

So you throw in land, you throw in air issues. So houses passed down without a will. And so 3 or 4 generations. You now may have 156 people who have a fractional interest in that house, because it’s passed down for generations, and the ability to sell their property and find all 156 to sign off on, it is almost impossible.

We have old housing inventory. Most of our houses were built, in the 30s or in the 70s, and some of those dilapidated. And we’re trying to to mitigate that by tearing down those old houses and, and make available. But then we have a lack of contractors.

David Martin: Okay.

Dr Mark Sarver: You know, the plumbers, the electricians, the framers, we we just don’t have a lot of those in our area. We have a great vo tech program. So students graduate high school and building trades, but the oil and gas industry scoops them up and is an 18 year old graduating high school. They’ll give you a truck and 70,000 bucks.

You’re probably going to go into the oil field.

David Martin: I have talked with other people about the idea of tearing down houses, almost kind of one by one.

Dr Mark Sarver: Yes.

David Martin: And the idea is it removes an eyesore, it removes the garbage pile. It removes vermin infestation, other problems with homeless and other people moving in. Yep.

Dr Mark Sarver: Drugs. People in there.

David Martin: Where does the money for that come from?

Dr Mark Sarver: In West Virginia, we have a state program called Delap, and, communities can apply for it. And, they’re helping us tear down these buildings we’ve torn down.

David Martin: And it’s just a lot of money is is a big expenditure.

Dr Mark Sarver: I think for the state overall, it is. We in the city of Glenville receive 65,000 bucks this year to tear down houses.

David Martin: How many, how many houses are we able to tear down?

Dr Mark Sarver: But we’ll probably get four torn down for that. So it’s hard, right? It’s a big impact.

David Martin: And is it a big is for a big impact.

Dr Mark Sarver: It is because the properties we’re tearing down all have infrastructure. They have water, they have sewer, they have everything you need. And now we’ve gotten an eyesore out of the way. And can build a modern house on that spot.

David Martin: As long as you get more contractors.

Dr Mark Sarver: And we’re working on that too. Okay. We’ve, the the, research the students did, generated a lot of interest. National Association of Home Builders has talked to us about trying to get home builders to think more rural. There’s a lot of opportunities we think we can build in those two counties, 35 to 50 new houses a year.

That becomes economies of scale. For a project like that, it’s not just one house or two house.

David Martin: You talked in the form that you just shared, about a lot of different topics. There was, downtown restoration. There was, using, outdoor natural resources, hiking trails, lakes, stuff like that. You talked about different funding projects, bringing in remote workers, all of these plans?

Dr Mark Sarver: Yes.

David Martin: Is any one of them the solution or how or do you have to incorporate everything?

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah, it’s a great question. And, you know, depending on the, the community. So all of these communities of ours we visited were so different. I can speak for us. For us. We’re working on a river project to bring tourism downtown. We’re working on, a business incubator. So, we’re a college town with no coffee house.

And that just to me, seems really wrong. I’ve tried coffee houses.

David Martin: When I was in school. It was a beer bar, but. Yeah, okay.

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah, but, we I’m not sure how much the federal money wants to be spent on beer bars, but, we, we are looking at a model where we’re building a chick fil A model the city will apply for, get grants and build the coffee shop. So the entrepreneur doesn’t have that $100,000 investment in trying to build out a coffee shop and the way Chick-Fil-A works is you’re not a franchisee.

You’re an owner operator. 10,000 bucks to get a chick fil A franchise. You make hundreds of thousands of bucks and split the profit with chick fil A at any point. You’re not living up to their standards. Somebody from Atlanta shows up with a $10,000 check and you’re done.

David Martin: Really.

Dr Mark Sarver: And so we want to use that model.

David Martin: That’s that’s why the chicken sandwiches are always really good.

Dr Mark Sarver: That’s why you get the greatest service out of chick fil A because they don’t want it for 10,000 bucks. Lose all of that. That revenue. So we’re looking at that with a coffee house and so we can go get the money, do the build out. Maybe it’s 2500 bucks that the entrepreneur comes in, has a coffee shop, and then our plan is to split at 7030 with the entrepreneur, 30% means we can put that money back into some other incubator type program.

David Martin: Okay.

Dr Mark Sarver: We have some some things you want to do with duckpin bowling. We we’re fortunate we have a state park, and then we have, the Sue Moore Sports Complex, which brings in 15 to 20,000 people a year to play softball, baseball, these traveling teams, they all spend money.

David Martin: And we parents spend money.

Dr Mark Sarver: The parents spend a lot of money on that. Yes. If you’re on a traveling team, you spend lots of money. A way to provide a place for them in between games can go, you know, have, a good meal and maybe do some duckpin bowling, maybe have an arcade that’s in, a facility close to it. So if we can prove the coffeehouse model, we have other ideas we want to do to spur that innovation and entrepreneurship.

David Martin: So two years you’ve been studying housing for the Appalachian Regional Commission and your students? Yes. For the last, while you’ve gone to 20 former coal communities and current coal communities with a diminished coal capacity. Yep. Are you optimistic that government is bringing about positive change?

Dr Mark Sarver: I think we’re on the right track. I think some of the, the appeals that the new administration may be looking at doing the, the drill, baby drill, the dig, baby dig, to bring coal back,

David Martin: As it’s not really so.

Dr Mark Sarver: With new technology is pretty realistic. I mean, I think there are some opportunities, to, to really bring back that as a, as a, an energy source. It’s an important energy source. And we have a lot of it. But I’m encouraged by, I mean, just the fact that, for two years we were funded to go do this research and to build, and these sort of best practices.

And part of the commitment was, you know, if there’s a small rural town, that likes what Glenville, West Virginia is doing, they can pick up the phone, call me. We’ve made a commitment to be available for any community that maybe whether it’s coal or maybe it’s, a manufacturing plant that’s closing. They’re still impacted, even though it’s not coal specific.

David Martin: So the Coal Communities Forum is sharing information. We are you are sharing information. So anybody who’s listening, they can call you directly.

Dr Mark Sarver: They can, they can.

David Martin: All right. Well I how you do later unless you want to give it out now. Do you feel like government is part of the solution in coal country in terms of changing the, the thinking, the mindset and the direction towards a brighter future?

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah, I think, I think it is we, I just I’m just finishing up a class for our graduate program on public policy in the economy. So it’s kind of timely. And we use real case studies, and we talk about coal and we talk about, the pharmaceutical industry, which is in real trouble because we’ve outsourced all of our major pharmaceutical drugs.

And so for the government to very strategically invest in those areas that not only provide a great economy, but some national security, you know, if we can’t get our blood pressure pills, things are going to be bad. So I think if the government is very strategic, they can really make those investments that will have a huge impact not only on the country, but in local communities also.

David Martin: And what have you brought back to Glenville, to your city from all this?

Dr Mark Sarver: So, yeah, it’s a it’s, part of it is just a network. So when I run across something, I’m like, oh, I know who I can call to.

David Martin: I can call Bob. And Wyoming goes.

Dr Mark Sarver: And have that conversation. We are working on a river project with tourism. We are working on those business incubators and, ways to, to get the economy going. And we’re working on housing. It’s it’s tough, but we’ve partnered with the university and, some of the other, companies to really start being very strategic and make them realize there is a huge market for this.

And some developers are now being, courted and interested in building those modern houses.

David Martin: All right. When we come back, we’re going to get to your philosophy of government. So.

Dr Mark Sarver: Okay.

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David Martin: This is our good government questionnaire. We’re going to get to the heart of what you really think about okay. All right. So, you’re the mayor now?

Dr Mark Sarver: I am the mayor.

David Martin: Before this, did you have another job? I like your job.

Dr Mark Sarver: I know this is my.

David Martin: This is your first time. How’s it going?

Dr Mark Sarver: It’s going really well, and I have.

David Martin: To clap along as mayor.

Dr Mark Sarver: One year, April 1st. I was appointed on April Fool’s Day. I’ll let you let that sink in.

David Martin: You were appointed on April Fool’s.

Dr Mark Sarver: Day last year, so we almost have a full year in, and, a little bit of just changing the mindset.

David Martin: Okay. Well, one year in what is good government.

Dr Mark Sarver: I think there are some basics you have to provide, you know, good infrastructure, good sidewalks, opportunities for citizens, protecting citizens, good police force, above that. Then start looking at those. What opportunities exist? How do we get people to move in? Our population in the last 30 years is declined by half. So we have to stop the bleed and have to make it.

It’s cheesy, but it’s a great place to live, a great place to work and a great place to play. And so we are working very strategically on those three areas to try to get more people to. It’s a great little town. It’s not a river through it. It’s got a university. It’s it’s an awesome, beautiful place. And when the zombie apocalypse happens, we’re going to be one of the safest places in the world.

David Martin: I will keep that in mind. It’s a it’s a it’s not that far drive from Brooklyn. If people are frustrated with government, if they don’t like what they’re seeing or they don’t like what you personally are doing, what should they do?

Dr Mark Sarver: Have conversations, get involved, run for office. A lot of these small communities, people run unopposed year after year. Get in and and become part of government and bring your ideas. That’s, that’s we live in a great country where you can be involved in the political aspect and be involved in, whether it’s at city level or county level, state level, there are opportunities.

David Martin: You are a university professor. That is your main job. That is it. What drew you to public service? What made you say, yes, I want to be mayor?

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah.

David Martin: I know, I know, the answer is for the press of the at the.

Dr Mark Sarver: But it is, it is. Yeah. Mad mayor money. You know, my my research focus is rural economic development.

David Martin: Okay.

Dr Mark Sarver: So for this, for me, it was an opportunity, almost like a living laboratory, almost like a sim city, that. What can we do in this community? We know the areas where we need to improve. We see some gaps. How can I take these things from my research, from the students research and implement them in an effective way at the local government?

David Martin: So it’s almost a living lab for you. It is.

Dr Mark Sarver: There it is. Yeah. The first lady is, you know, doesn’t like when I call it a living lab, but, it really is.

David Martin: That’s the lady with the with the spike heels. Yes. Okay. All right, that’s it. She’s she’s sitting here just off to the left. I’m sure you’ll hear about this later. Thanks. So did someone inspire you to to run for office? Do you have a political hero? Did someone say it? Was there someone you said I. You know what?

I want to try that because I see what they’re doing.

Dr Mark Sarver: No, I just think there was a void, and, you know, I’ve been a serial entrepreneur most of my life. And so for me, this was a great opportunity to take knowledge that I have and put it to practical use.

David Martin: All right. You’re here in government? Yes. What have you learned? What would you like people to know now that you’re on the inside, that you didn’t know previously? I mean, certainly you’ve done a lot of research and talk to a lot of people. Yeah, but there’s a difference when you’re actually, you know, sitting behind the desk, right?

Dr Mark Sarver: Yes. It’s a great question. You know, you get, some people just want to fuss about stuff and you’re like, that’s a great idea. I would like you to be involved in this committee. And they’re like, well, I mean, I was just saying, other people have great ideas. We just early on put out a questionnaire on Facebook and said if money were no object, what would you do different in limbo?

Do you know what the number one answer was?

David Martin: I can’t imagine better sidewalks. Really?

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah. I mean, that wasn’t even on my radar as, you know, I was thinking playgrounds. I was thinking a river, project that they want better sidewalks. So I think, you know, if you ask people, they’ll tell you, And just have open conversations. I have, coffee in conversations with the mayor. I’ll open up my office again.

We’re a small town. Anytime you want to stop by and see me, I’m generally there. But, concerted efforts to get community input. What do you think? Here are some projects we’re doing. Where do you see this fitting in? And we’ve gotten great response.

David Martin: So you just want more people to talk to you?

Dr Mark Sarver: More people to talk to me less? Yes. You know, less yelling about you know, the streets not being cleaned in the snowmageddon or but, yeah, just great conversations, great ideas and where they like to see the community go.

David Martin: What’s the best part of being there?

The parking spot.

Dr Mark Sarver: Actually, I don’t have a parking spot.

David Martin: You know, we’ve already covered. It’s not the money.

Dr Mark Sarver: It’s not the money. It really is. Seeing those things that I’ve studied for years being being trod. And, I have a great city council, and they’re, open to trying new things. They they know we have to do something different. We are blessed. Broadband is coming through. There are eight counties that went together and applied for for money.

And Glenville is the first city to be, to light up with gigabyte broadband. And so we’ve created a rural technology testbed. So if you’re a technology company, a smart city company, we now have a nice little town where you can come test the stuff at university to help you write your white paper. And, it’s a great partnership.

David Martin: So what keeps you up at night?

Dr Mark Sarver: The, you know, a year ago, I walked into my bathroom, assumed there was water in the commode and flushed it and really didn’t care where it went. And because we own the utilities, we own our water plant, we own our sewer plant. It’s those things from water quality, from cyberattacks, from expanding. You know, if we want to build more houses, we got to have more sewer planet.

Sewer plants aren’t sexy, but. And they cost a lot of money.

David Martin: They do.

Dr Mark Sarver: But that’s the stuff that I worry about. It is.

David Martin: The stuff that’s not, the fun part.

Dr Mark Sarver: The stuff that’s the other stuff isn’t the.

David Martin: Bitty gritty part. Yeah. Did you always see yourself? Did you ever see yourself getting into public service? Some of your university professor?

Dr Mark Sarver: No, as a matter of fact, when I was appointed, some of my buddies were texting Mingo. And did the opposition have no research whatsoever? Yeah. It was not really, what I saw, but, and as I’ve done other research, we looked at RC counties that have been moved from distressed. And so two summers ago, spent traveling all across the East Coast looking at these towns, going, what did you do?

Well, how did you come out of distress? Artist. Yeah. Starting to move forward. And so from that standpoint, yeah, the ability to actually try this stuff is, is really awesome, but no political. I’m not going to be governor. I’m not going to be a senator.

David Martin: Yeah, this is it.

Dr Mark Sarver: This is it. Okay, I’ll retire from here. And, you know, go put my feet in the sand somewhere.

David Martin: So we really haven’t talked much about Glenville. It’s in central West Virginia.

Dr Mark Sarver: It is right in the heart. Right in the.

David Martin: Heart of West Virginia. Yep. Not a big town.

Dr Mark Sarver: We are about a thousand people. We have a thousand. We have a federal prison that has 1500 inmates just outside of town. Okay. And then we have a university which has about 1600 students. So our population more than doubles, nine months out of the year, school year. And it’s, it’s a cool little college town.

It’s very safe. Can we get people from, you know, students from Chicago and LA and Miami who come there and they first look at and go, oh my goodness, this is.

David Martin: I think.

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah. But then they realize, you know, this is a safe community. Parents love it. It’s it really is a great little community.

David Martin: So what’s the thing that, if I was to come to Glenville, what’s the signature dish? What’s the what’s the cuisine of Glendale? What do we have in and where are we going?

Dr Mark Sarver: You know, we, we have a couple of great restaurants in town, but, you know, West Virginia is known for its pepperoni rolls. We.

David Martin: Have yes, I.

Dr Mark Sarver: Have a Roni rolls. This.

David Martin: Goes back to the Italian.

Dr Mark Sarver: Packing it in the, the the buckets for the coal. And it stayed. And so. Yeah, I think I would, I think I would have to get you some, pepperoni rolls.

David Martin: All right. What do you do for fun when you’re off the clock? What are you doing?

Dr Mark Sarver: We have a great little nine hole golf course. And my wife and I like to play golf.

David Martin: We, your game.

Dr Mark Sarver: That was not very good at all. No, and it’s a great opportunity for constituents to tell me what they think on the golf course. All right, what do you get.

David Martin: Out of the hiking trails of the river?

Dr Mark Sarver: We do. We, we like to go. We have some Great Lakes. We have, the river and, mountain biking, I mean, all the outdoor activities we have. And so, we try to get out as much and, and nature and do those things as we can.

David Martin: So this is the good government show. We always end it with good government. Tell me about a project that you found in your in your work with, resilient coal communities that you really were impressed with and said, wow, that’s a cool project.

Dr Mark Sarver: I think it really the one that I mean, there were a ton of just really innovative things people are doing and communities are doing. But the one that I keep going back to is the restaurant incubator where, you know, the ability to come in and try it. I think I make the world’s greatest hot dog sauce.

You know, we call hot dog chili in West Virginia. I think it’s the world’s greatest hot dog sauce. Hot dog sauce. And so, you know, there’s this hidden desire to maybe one day have a little hot dog stand there, but, you know, to have a restaurant, it’s 150, 200,000 bucks. And. But if I had a little place where I could rent for 600 bucks a month, then, try it for six months and find out if I’m really good or, you know, people don’t like my hot dogs.

Also, as much as I like my hot dogs sauce, but that ability to help entrepreneurs experience that and help them, get started in a business and, that was in Craig, Colorado. And so I can call up melody, who was the brick, my counterpart there and just say, get me in touch with those folks who did it.

I want to know their business plan. They’ll have a conversation with us. I mean, it’s that networking. But, yes, I want I want to create that in Glenville.

David Martin: A hot dog plant, a hot dog sauce.

Dr Mark Sarver: A hot dogs.

David Martin: So, yeah, that takes us to the.

Dr Mark Sarver: Restaurant, incubator, so people can come in and we have more choices and, Yeah.

David Martin: All right. It’s doctor Mark Shaffer, the mayor of Glenville, West Virginia, and the head of the coal community’s resilient. You said it’s a big I like to.

Dr Mark Sarver: I’m just ahead of it. I’m just one of the members. It is the building resilient economies and coal communities. And I’m one of the, 20 coalition members, so. All right. Yeah.

David Martin: Well, good to hear that. There’s good things going on in coal country. Thank you very much.

Dr Mark Sarver: Thanks for having me. I look forward to seeing you in Vegas.

David Martin: All right? All right. That’s what you call it, GTA Vegas.

Dr Mark Sarver: Yeah, that’s what we’re working on.

David Martin: Vegas. Good luck with.

Dr Mark Sarver: That. Thank you.

David Martin: Sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. After you get done with this episode, hear more good government stories with our friends at How to Really Run a City for mayors. Kasim Reed of Atlanta and Michael Nutter, a Philadelphia, and their co-host, journalist and author Larry Platt. Talk with guests and other mayors about how to really get stuff done in cities around the nation.

Check them out where you’re listening now or through their nonprofit news site, The Philadelphia Citizen. Dot org slash podcasts. So much good work going on. And that’s good government and that’s encouraging. But overall, a long look at what’s going on in coal country. Not only are there lots of challenges, but there are also a lot of solutions, like a lot of solutions.

So there’s no one thing that will fix everything, but a lot of different ideas work together to make change. As mayors and other leaders will tell you, sometimes being a man is a lonely job. I’ve heard it before from mayors who say, hey, we can’t do anything, but we’re blamed for everything. So having a forum like building resilient economies and coal communities allows leaders to talk to each other and share good ideas.

And that, folks, is indeed good government. You’re going to hear from others who are part of this forum and have other views of what’s going on in their coal communities, so make sure you stay right here and listen to future episodes. Oh, and to Mayor Sarver, good luck with the hot dog sauce. Well, that’s our show. Thanks for listening.

Please like us and share this with your friends and review right here. Where you listening and check out our website. Good government show.com for extras. Help us keep telling stories of good government in action everywhere. Join us again for another episode right here. I’m Dave Martin and this is the Good Government show.

The Good Government show is a Valley Park production. Jim Mundo, Dave Martin, that’s me and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our show is edited and produced by Jason Searcy. Please subscribe, then share and like us and review us. That’s the best way to make sure we’re able to keep telling these stories of our government working for all of us.

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**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.