A Conversation with a US Inspector General

David Martin: This is the good government show.

Jay Lerner: That’s so good about being inspector general. I felt good about really trying to improve government operations, and that really is the focus of being an inspector general.

Essentially $18 return for every dollar invested in the inspector General community. I really cut my teeth at the Department of Justice. That was the first ten years of my experience in the government.

One of the great benefits that the IGS provide and oversight as a whole, is a deterrent effect. It’s interesting to the inspector general that, you know, it’s been characterized as, sir, the most important public servant. You’ve never heard of. Government workers work hard, and they really try to do the right thing.

David Martin: The most important government job you never heard of that describes the office of Inspector General. That’s how the former inspector general for the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the FDIC, described his job. Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m Dave Martin. First, help us share the message of good government by liking us and sharing us where we are on Facebook, X, YouTube, Instagram and Blue Sky.

Please share our show with your friends and review us right here. Real estate and join our Good Government show community. Check out our website for the link on today’s episode. I talked with Jay Lerner. He’s had a career in public service for the last 12 years working as an Inspector General. There are 72 inspectors general working in the federal government.

The mission of the office is to find it, prevent waste, fraud and abuse. They’re created to be an independent body that provides government oversight. Unfortunately, the current presidential administration has tried to limit their role. Firing inspectors generals and attempting to reduce their influence. As you’ll hear, their role is critical, important, and a necessary check, which is exactly what we need in a healthy democracy.

There’s a lot of good government coming up in this conversation, a lot. We talked about the FDIC and its role in government, and we discuss a lot of projects that grew out of investigations. Jay Lerner did to make sure government ran smoothly and that all of us benefited. Coming up, my conversation with Jay Lerner, former FDIC inspector general and a long record of public service.

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Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m very happy to have with me Jay Lerner, who is a National Academy of Public Administration fellow. He was also with the Department of Justice. He was an inspector general and inspector general for the FDIC, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, several years in justice. Welcome to the show. There’s a lot I want to get to.

There’s a lot I want to talk about.

Jay Lerner: Thank you, David. Appreciate it. I appreciate you having me on.

David Martin: Thank you. Now, I don’t know where to begin. So I’m going to just jump right in. First of all, we met at the National Academy of Public Administration at their annual conference where you’re a fellow. Just let’s start there. National Academy of Public Administration, we’ve talked to a few folks. What’s your role there? What do you do? And, why should we all pay attention to what the national folks are doing?

Jay Lerner: Yeah. Napa does some really important work. I, became a fellow just two years ago, so I’m relatively new as a fellow, but they really are the experts in public administration. A congressionally authorized, organization, and they can help with administration of government, said federal level, state level, local level on various issues. They can do some strategic planning and, work on particular subject matter areas and topics.

One area that they’re really focused on is artificial intelligence and how that will affect, you know, future government, administration and public administration. And Napa has about, thousand fellows. So there’s a wide range of expertise and experience among those fellows at various, levels of government. And, you know, it’s a pool of candidates that they can draw upon for expertise in various areas.

David Martin: All to create and improve and make good government better. Correct?

Jay Lerner: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that’s really the goal. And these people have, you know, many years of experience in the government, have devoted their careers to public service. And so that is what drives them. That’s what motivates them. And inspires them as well.

David Martin: Well, here on The Good Government Show, we’d like to know that people are working towards good government. So that’s good news. I wanted to talk to you about your most recent role, 31 years in federal government. I know I kind of glossed over your entire resume, but let’s just start with your last job. You were inspector general for the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the FDIC.

Let’s start with what is the FDIC? And, this was, something that was created, after the Great Depression, the 1930s, correct?

Jay Lerner: Yeah. That’s right. The FDIC is the insurance corporation. They ensure our bank deposits up to $250,000. All the bank deposits around the country. And it’s really a way to establish some, security or stability in the financial system so that the banks, there’s not a run on banks, which is what happened in the Great Depression and what, you know, led to the creation of the FDIC.

They also do, safety and soundness examinations of banks to make sure that the banks are safe and sound. As well as managing when a bank does fail, managing the resolution and the receivership of that bank in those events where a bank sales.

David Martin: Without the FDIC, where would we be? I mean, I remember, you know, you it’s a Wonderful Life. You know, people ran on the bank and they didn’t have any money. Yeah. Without that, I mean, would that would that be what we would go back to?

Jay Lerner: Yeah. I mean, it’s hard to know what would happen in the absence. But it, you know, just it wasn’t that long ago we had the Great Recession and, 2008, 2011 timeframe. And, there was a lot of concern about runs on banks. I think it was roughly over 400 banks that failed during that time. And there was great concern, people having their money in a bank and whether it would be insured, or, you know, safe and FDIC provides that insurance and, you know, helped in those situations where banks failed during the Great Recession, that was, you know, just 15 years ago or so.

David Martin: It’s again, strikes strikes me as good government, you know, government stepping in to make sure that when you put your $10,000 rainy day savings account in a bank, it stays there.

Jay Lerner: That’s right. Yeah. And and, you know, that’s, something that provides the stability and integrity to the financial system as a whole.

David Martin: So what I really want to talk to you about, though, is your 13 years, I think it was, 13 years, 12 years as an inspector general. Let’s start at the very beginning. What is the role of inspector general in the in the government?

Jay Lerner: Sure. And just to clarify, it was 12 years in the IG community and inspector general community, six years at the Department of Justice Inspector General’s office, which is where I was chief of staff and then six years as the inspector general at the FDIC. The Inspector General, act of 1978 was created post-Watergate after the Watergate era. And there were a number of government reforms that took place in that time frame.

After, you know, the Watergate break in in 1972 and President Nixon resigned in 1974, a number of reforms, to make sure that executive powers were, limited and focused. And one of them was the inspector general act. And it created basically, one way to think about it as an internal watchdog within an agency. And so it allowed, an independent review of agency programs and operations and investigations where there were, you know, allegations of individuals that were, you know, committing some sort of misconduct or mismanagement.

And it brought it to, under one roof within an agency. There were 12 inspectors general created in, in that time frame and over, the past 47 years, it’s increased to 72 IGS within the inspector general community and the federal government. It went through great expansion. After, you know, in the 1980s, that time frame.

It’s interesting to know just historically that there was great resistance to the IG act. Back in 1978. President Carter resisted it, but ultimately signed the act. The Department of Justice reasons.

David Martin: Why was Carter resisting?

Jay Lerner: Well, I think he was, concerned, based on some of the concerns of the Department of Justice said that we’re separation of powers issue. Okay. And by that, I mean the, inspector general at the inspectors general report both to Congress and to the head of the agency. And so being lodged within the executive branch, they had a reporting requirement to Congress, which crossed over between executive branch and legislative branch.

So that was the Department of Justice concerned. And I think, President Carter had shared similar concerns. Ultimately, he came around and thought it was one of the, signature moments of his, of his administration. Interestingly, the Gao, the comptroller general at the time, also resisted and then thought it was everyone’s responsibility to maintain an efficient government and fight fraud, waste and abuse.

And, you know, the IG wasn’t needed once again. Ultimately, people came around and, you know, in the 1980s, I think a lot of the agencies and the, you know, the administration, the Reagan administration at that time really appreciated IGS and expanded the role, to where it is, you know, over time, today.

David Martin: Is it working?

Jay Lerner: I think so I, you know, I think 2025 has been a tough year. Yes, Inspector general, we can talk about that show. We will go over time. It it’s it’s it has been working. That being said, I think there are improvements that could be made to the IG, role, that, but it has, you know, been very effective in fighting waste, fraud and abuse over that time.

David Martin: How challenging is it to have an office that’s investigating the department that you’re working in?

Jay Lerner: It is challenging. And, I often say that they’re not the most popular people in the agency. Yeah. There was always a joke. You to. No one would want to sit with us at the cafeteria, or we’d get on the elevator and people would walk off.

David Martin: Or talk quietly or stop talking.

Jay Lerner: But it was really created to be an independent function and an independent, watchdog, essentially within the agency. And so that independence is really important, to the role and, being able to sort of call it like, you see it and call balls and strikes as, as an inspector general. And so we do that without fear or favor and follow the facts wherever they might lead.

It’s not always, popular position, but it is an important position to conduct an oversight in, in an independent manner.

David Martin: And for the most part, is it is it, you know, inside the department that you’re working at? Is it is it is it respected? Is it is it something that everyone says? Well, that that’s their role. That’s their job. We got to help them out. Are, is are you like, lone wolf in the department?

Jay Lerner: I think it’s a little bit of a mix. It depends on the department and it depends on the relationship. It depends on the IG. I always try to maintain good relations with the agency and make sure that there was transparency, that they knew what we were working on and that there was, clarity in terms of our role, what we were investigating, what we were auditing and our findings, making recommendations and having a discussions.

You know, it’s important to have those discussions when you’re thinking about making a recommendation for improvements to the agency and working through whether it’s feasible, whether it makes sense, whether it’s prudent. And those are some of the conversations that you have with the agency. And I think that builds the credibility and trust between the inspector general and an independent function and the agency itself.

David Martin: You did it for a long time. It’s a hard job. Why did you stick with it for so long.

Jay Lerner: And so good about being inspector general? I felt good about really trying to improve government operations, and that really is the focus of being an inspector general is working to make those improvements. And like I said, it’s not always popular, but it’s an important role. The audit evaluation function that I mentioned looks at programs and their efficiencies and whether they’re meeting their goals, whether they’re, those are even the right goals that you should be aiming for.

And the investigations is another aspect that I think is really, an important function. And it draws upon my experience as a prosecutor at the Department of Justice in prior years to investigate financial frauds. And that, I think, also maintains the integrity and credibility in the financial system to make sure that people aren’t embezzling money or doing money laundering or committing bank fraud.

Those were the kinds of cases we handle at the FDIC.

David Martin: Talking about cases I found a case in. And this is an old case, and I don’t expect you to know of all the details of a case, but I just found one. It just jumped out at me. It was a, a private health care company. It was called, outcome health. They were charged with a $1 billion in fraud, money laundering, wire fraud, mail fraud, you know, ripping off, both customers and, I gather, insurance companies.

I have a quote here that says the defendants were charged, allegedly over inflating the company’s revenue. So say you, back at this case, back when you were inspector general, the FDIC. What is a kind of case like this mean to people? And, you know, is this the kind of cases you were doing regularly?

Jay Lerner: It is the kind of case that we were doing regularly. We often looked at bank fraud cases. And it really is goes back to what I was saying before about maintaining the integrity of the financial system. If you have a financial system that people don’t have faith in, or that people are committing fraud in, or, like I said, money laundering or embezzling money, no one’s going to want to invest in a bank, or there’s going to be real doubt as to whether they invest in the bank.

So I thought, I think our role was very important to make sure that there was an enforcement investigative function to enforce, you know, to investigate those matters and bring those to prosecution. And so that was the kind of cases we brought. And, I think, you know, it was an important role and part of our mission as an inspector general, I should add that the FDIC inspector general is unique or maybe not unique, but it has, a certain business model of looking at external cases, meaning outside of the agency, many inspectors general have internal functions looking at the internal employees of the agency when there’s allegations of wrongdoing.

So my experience at the Department of Justice, Office of Inspector General was more focused on the 120,000 or so employees at the Department of Justice, say, like an FBI agent or a DEA agent or US marshals, and those allegations of wrongdoing by those individuals. Whereas the FDIC looked more at external cases of bank fraud at the banks, the regulated industry, and, wrongdoing by bankers or at banks.

David Martin: When you look at the inspectors general across, the U.S government, I saw something that said in 2024, the inspector general’s cases, investigations saved the American people $71 billion.

Jay Lerner: Yeah. And,

David Martin: $71 billion.

Jay Lerner: And it’s a really great return on investment. The, return on investment varies from year to year, but that was essentially $18 returned for every dollar invested in the inspector general community. And so it’s a really valuable benefit just in terms of the dollar amounts. But it’s also important to think of non quantifiable benefits that the inspectors general provide as well, even beyond the dollars, because there’s a lot of benefits from looking at those programs for efficiencies and so on in terms of things like national security or privacy or health care or environmental factors.

And there’s I inspectors general at all the different agencies to improve those programs as well that we really can’t put into dollar amounts. And so the IGS can really have a significant impact on improving government, functions and maintaining the integrity within the agency even beyond the numbers themselves. And that $71 billion is a pretty significant amount for 2024.

And like I said, it varies from year to year. A little bit.

David Martin: So the current administration right now, has decided that it was going to fire 19 inspectors, generals, they’ve shut down websites. They’ve replaced other inspectors generals with temporary inspectors generals. What’s the wisdom here?

Jay Lerner: Well, I think, you know, I’m not sure I’m in a position to necessarily explain, but I, you know, I.

David Martin: Just make any sense to you that you you have an organization here that’s sole purpose is to, in fact, find waste, fraud and abuse. And to shut that down and to get rid of the people who have the institutional knowledge to discover waste, fraud and abuse.

Jay Lerner: Well, it’s not the way I would operate, that’s for sure. I think there’s been significant diminished oversight within the, executive branch. In the, you know, in the past, year or so, you know, the IGS provide those benefits that we just talked about and removing them and that institutional knowledge that you said, really, you know, creates a gap.

I don’t believe they’ve been replaced. I think there’s only been two IGS confirmed this year. And in addition to the firing, several IGS that you mentioned, there were, several acting IGS that were replaced, particularly after they issued a critical, negative report. And, you know, that oversight really creates a gap or, you know, the lack of oversight will the absence will create a gap.

And there, you know, will be inefficiencies that will not be detected, or there might be inaccurate information out there or, you know, some of these investigations won’t be done. So there’ll be an increase in fraud or improper payments from the government. There might be, you know, unfair competition. A lot of IGS look at the contracting or grant process at agencies, and there might be unfair competition or there might be ethics issues.

One of the great benefits that the IGS provide and oversight as a whole, is a deterrent effect. I can’t tell you how many times I heard that, you know, an agency official said I would like to do something, but I don’t want the IG looking at it or I don’t want that appearing on the front page of a newspaper or in the media.

Yeah. And so oversight really provides an important deterrent. And it’s hard to quantify. There’s no way to quantify or prove a negative. But I believe that things are not happening. You know, bad things are not happening because there is an oversight function in the IG’s exist.

David Martin: Would they ever bring you into the office and say, here’s what we’re thinking about doing this, it’s going to fly. I mean, did those conversations ever happen?

Jay Lerner: Occasionally there was an effort to do that. But IGS are very careful not to be involved in the underlying management of the agency, and it’s a way to maintain their own independence in case they would want to audit or evaluate that ram down the road. And so in the IG act, in the statute itself, it’s, you know, basically says that IG should not participate in management decisions.

And I was always very careful not to do that. Is there was prior work that we had done, prior audits or evaluations that we thought could be useful for future programs. We would share that information with the agency for them to decide, but we were not in the decision making at all.

David Martin: Fair enough. Probably a good idea. Obviously I’m not government or inspector general.

Jay Lerner: Well, it’s just a way to maintain that independence. And, you know, really it’s it’s a crucial element to the inspector general and an oversight as a whole.

David Martin: You see a headline or you hear something on, you know, news channel that says, you know, the president has fired 19 inspectors general. You know, most people have never had contact with the inspector general. They don’t really know what an inspector general does. You know, when you see that headline, what would you like people to understand about what that means?

Jay Lerner: Well, it’s interesting the inspector said, you know, it’s been characterized as, sir, the most important public servant you’ve never heard of. And, I like.

David Martin: To say that again, the most.

Jay Lerner: Important public servant that you’ve never heard of, I can’t take credit for it, is a colleague of mine that came up with that. But I think it’s also true that it’s a really important role that people don’t know much about. I feel like I’m still explaining it to my family, even though I was 12 years in the ag community.

But that being said, it’s, you know, that internal watchdog and the benefits it provides is an important role to make sure that governments, are operating, you know, efficiently and, you know, detecting waste, fraud and abuse when it occurs. And so removing those IGS removes that element and takes away those benefits. So it’s really concerning over the past year that diminished oversight as a whole.

You know, one one thing that I’ve been doing since I retired a couple of years ago is, is teaching. And I teach a course at George Washington University on oversight and accountability. And I think it’s important to think of inspectors general fitting into the larger scheme of oversight of the executive branch. There are at least, the first three articles of the Constitution create the branches of government, and each branch legislative, executive and judiciary have a role of oversight of the executive branch.

And that was the brilliance of the Constitution and the framers to create that system of checks and balances among the different branches of government. And so, if you think about it, Congress has a role in terms of their standing committees. The, Government Accountability Office, the Gao has an important role. And there’s other legislative oversight bodies like the Congressional Research Service or Congressional Budget Office, all that have an important legislative role of oversight over the executive branch.

Within the executive branch, the IGS play a very important role, and we’ve talked about that as well as there’s other functions within the executive branch, like the Office of Government Ethics that looks at the ethics program, the Office of Special Counsel that protects whistleblowers within the executive branch, even the Department of Justice. It’s litigating divisions determine the proper legal parameters for the powers of the executive branch.

And then ultimately, the courts will decide those powers within the executive branch. And so all three of those branches of government, have an important oversight role. And I try to think of my, you know, in teaching my course, I try to think of it broadly and how I fit into that. And I’ll add one more element of oversight, which is the fourth estate, the press in the media, with its role in investigative journalism and, you know, include think tanks in that or non-governmental organizations that also play an important role of oversight over the executive branch.

And so all of that is a system that we’ve created over time to make sure there’s a proper oversight. And that has been largely diminished in this past year. And it’s a little bit concerning, you know, the absence of those oversight functions.

David Martin: Well, I don’t know, for an oversight, but we’re trying to explain to folks here in the good government, show what it is government does. So hopefully they listen to, an episode like this and they’re a little bit wiser about what it is that government does. That’s our goal.

Jay Lerner: It all starts with awareness raising awareness. And, you know, I think that’s an important thing that you’re doing and is something that I think is important for inspectors general to do.

David Martin: You had 31 years in, in government service, the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, the office of the Inspector General, the FDIC. You were actually helped start the Homeland Security and the Transportation Security Administration. Why do you stay in government all this time? You could have cashed out and gone somewhere else, and I’m sure done very well.

What kept you in government all that time?

Jay Lerner: Yeah, it’s it’s it’s a good question. And, I think back to the early part of my career, after I got out of law school, I went to a law firm, and then started and a lot in the government, back in 1992, and I really thought I’d be there just 2 or 3 years and go back to, law firm.

But what I realized then and over time, that what was really driving me is the mission of government and serving people, serving the country and serving the American people. And so over time, I realized that was what was motivating me, and that’s what I wanted to stick with. And admittedly, it’s not necessarily a lucrative, process or as lucrative as a law firm.

And I’m not going to be a rich man, I understand that, but I also felt like I was doing something that was helping others. And to me, that was, particularly motivating. And, I was fortunate over that time to have a lot of good opportunities, as you said, at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security in the inspector general community.

And I’m, grateful for those opportunities and to be able to serve that mission.

David Martin: All right. That was the easy part. Are you ready for the hard part?

Jay Lerner: I hope so. I think so.

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More engaged conversations come through the our app. Visit our co that’s ou rco.com and book a demonstration. After you get done with this episode, hear more good government stories with our friends at How to Really Run a City for mayors. Kasim Reed of Atlanta and Michael Nutter, a Philadelphia, and their co-host, journalist and author Larry Platt talk with guests and other mayors about how to really get stuff done in cities around the nation.

Check them out where you’re listening now or through their nonprofit news site, The Philadelphia Citizen. Dot org slash podcasts. Now we’re going to get into your real thoughts on what government is all about, your real thoughts, your philosophy of government, 31 years in government, in government service, define good government. What is it?

Jay Lerner: Well, I think it starts with, service to others, public service. And that really is at the core. And what was driving me to serve the American people, and to do it with integrity and prudence, doing it in a smart way, doing the right thing at its core, I think it’s important to have a certain fidelity to the facts, to the underlying facts.

We can debate and disagree over policy and the merits of certain policies. And frankly, that’s what democracy is about and having those discussions and debates. But the underlying facts is something that inspectors general really delve deeply into and can really serve. I think it’s also important good government, good governance is, to be transparent. So American people have the right to know how their government agencies operate and to do it with strong leadership, having a vision of where you want to go for the future.

And so those were the some of the pillars, the principles that I tried to live up to throughout my career, and particularly as inspector general at the FDIC.

David Martin: If people are frustrated of what they’re seeing in government at the federal level or even at a local level, what should they do?

Jay Lerner: I think using their voice, and I think there’s a lot of ways to do that. Certainly you can do it at the ballot box. I think it’s also important to communicate that to your representatives, whether it be local representative, state representatives, Congress and, and the like. And to make sure that you voice your opinion. And like I said, the facts are the facts, the you can debate over the policy.

And that’s where I feel like people can really influence the future of government when they express their voice. In terms of policy decisions, for, you know, oversight, if there’s support for oversight, then that should be communicated to your representatives so that they, represent the people and provide protections for, proper oversight.

David Martin: You said you were working at a at a law, at a private law firm and decided to go into the government. What made you make the leap into public service and into government? And, why did you do it?

Jay Lerner: Well, at the time, I, wanted to litigate. I wanted to be in court. That was kind of what was driving it to be to get some experience of courtroom activity and understanding of the criminal justice process. But like I said, over time, and I thought I’d be there a couple of years, getting an.

David Martin: Assistant U.S. attorney is that, though, was that was your.

Jay Lerner: Job? It was, in the main justice, which was at a different title, but I was prosecuting cases out of the money laundering section at the Department of Justice here in Washington.

David Martin: Okay. Who inspires you?

Jay Lerner: I’ve worked with some really, amazing colleagues over the years. I’m not sure I can name any. I don’t want to, you know, pick any one out. Okay. But, I, I’ve worked with some amazing colleagues over the years. And I really cut my teeth at the Department of Justice. That was the first ten years of my experience in the government and in the criminal division.

I worked with several, you know, deputy assistant attorneys general. That really influenced me, some other great prosecutors. And, I’ve been fortunate to learn from all of those experiences over time.

David Martin: Did you always see yourself or did you ever see yourself in public service, or your president or student government where you wanted to be a prosecutor your whole life?

Jay Lerner: No. My career sort of has taken twists and turns based on, what I thought was right at the time and what opportunities were available to me at the time. I, did not see myself being a criminal prosecutor, but that’s where I ended up and where I landed. And I did not see myself being an inspector general.

But, like I said, careers take have different twists and turns, and I was fortunate to have those opportunities over time.

David Martin: You say you weren’t president of your student council?

Jay Lerner: No, but I was in student government in my law school and.

David Martin: All right, so, you know, you you’ve been 31 years in government. What would you like people to know about government that they don’t know?

Jay Lerner: I think what is probably most significant is how hard people work in the government. I think there’s often a view that, you know, government workers may be lazy or unmotivated and so on, and there are probably some of them. But frankly, when I started at the Department of Justice and over time, it was really people were rolling up their sleeves to get the job done and whatever it took, even if it was long hours or weekends or working on holidays and so on, and I think that’s an important thing for people to appreciate that government workers work hard and they really try to do the right thing.

Sometimes it seems overly bureaucratic or, you know, process oriented, and there is some of that. But on the whole and in the main, people work really hard, really try to do a good job. And I think they do a good job over time. That isn’t to say it can’t be improved, but it’s really, that public interest serving the American people, that drives people to stay in the government and to work hard.

David Martin: What was the best thing about being an inspector general?

Jay Lerner: I think it was that mission of actually working to make the government operate better. Whether whether it’s your particular agency or within the inspector general community. That was always what was driving me and what I think was driving my colleagues, to make improvements in government operations and to maintain that integrity. So when there was an investigation that we would, you know, delve deeply in and investigate a matter and, and, you know, try to do the right thing.

So that is what I found. What I took pride in, what I found motivated me, what inspired me, and what, you know, what? I stuck with it.

David Martin: You retired from federal government. You retired. It was your decision. I get to leave? Yes. Do you miss it?

Jay Lerner: I miss certain aspects of it.

David Martin: Certain aspects. Okay.

Jay Lerner: So I, I miss, I miss that people. I really, you know, made a lot of good friends over the time and, and admired, learning from others in the, inspector general community or when I was a prosecutor at DOJ. And I miss the people. I also miss some of the mission. But frankly, I really enjoyed retirement and moving in a different direction.

I’ve been doing teaching. We talked about, Napa, the National Academy of Public Administration, I am an expert consultant at the Gao, the Government Accountability Office in terms of their center for Audit Excellence. And frankly, I’ve been doing a lot of volunteer work and once again, feel like I’m serving people, you know, helping others along the way.

So I find all of that pretty rewarding as well.

David Martin: So what do you do for fun?

Jay Lerner: I’m just doing a lot of different things. I’ve actually started, ushering at various, either events, concerts, comedy shows. Or musicals. Yeah. And I’ve really had a good time with it. It’s been it’s been fun.

David Martin: You’re I’m.

Jay Lerner: Sure we also have, we’re also beekeepers, so we keep bees in our backyard. We available back there and produce a lot of honey. So those are some, interesting little, hobbies we have on our side.

David Martin: That sounds like that. How many bees do you have?

Jay Lerner: Well, right now we have four hives. Okay. You usually start a season in March or April with two hives. And sometimes they. You can split hives, so that you end up with more, when they get overcrowded, you can split and they will, make a new queen. And there’s a, you know, two hives from one.

So we now have four. And, I’m hoping keeping my fingers crossed that they will survive through, through the winter, basically, we don’t touch them between November and, say, March, until it gets warm again. So, we kind of hope that things go well.

David Martin: So my mom was an usher at her local community theater. Where are you, usher? I hope not charity center, I’m guessing.

Jay Lerner: No. I’m ushering at the Shakespeare Theater Company in Washington and at Arena Stage. Those are the two main things. And then I’ve been working some shows, some concerts at, various venues around.

David Martin: Right. So you’re seeing some good shows?

Jay Lerner: I am all.

David Martin: Right. Good. What do you think was the most impactful thing that you did as inspector general?

Jay Lerner: I think, it was, the reports, the audit and evaluation reports and the investigations, it’s really the two sides of Inspector General’s office. And I’m proud of all of them. You know, both sides. I think having an impact was really my goal. Some IGS may approach it a little bit differently. But I really took time and energy on important reports.

For instance, we did a report on enterprise risk management, the how the FDIC managed the risk at the agency as a whole. And based on our report, they created a whole new office and a whole new function at the FDIC. And when the FDIC goes out to examine a bank, they require the banks to look at their risks.

And but the FDIC was not doing. And so I so that was an important impact that we had. We did a report on crisis readiness to make sure that the agency was ready in event of a crisis, whether it be a financial crisis or some other crisis. And once again, they created a whole new office based on our report and hired people to, you know, make sure that they could manage crises.

So when you see the recommendations and the results from that, you feel good about what you’re doing. And on the investigation side, it’s it’s what I said before where we were, I felt we were bringing integrity and and stability to the financial system to make sure that there was credibility and that people were willing to place their money in banks.

And, you know, that it was operating with integrity.

David Martin: So my last question you’ve already answered, unfortunately, we had the question I always ask is this is the good government. Shall we always bring it back to good government? Can you give me an example of a good government project you were involved with? You just gave me too. What’s your most favorite from all your 31 years in the government?

Jay Lerner: I’m not sure I have a favorite, but, being an inspector general, I think was it was key. And I mentioned some of the reports we did. I I’ve worked on, you know, several, areas responding to crises. And I think that’s an area where I felt like I really contributed or made positive contributions and fortunate to have those opportunities.

So, you know, post, 911, I started up, Department of Homeland Security and the transportation, not solely, but I was part of that start up, I should say, about the Transportation Security Administration. And, you know, it’s not a perfect agency, but it’s, you know, we brought stability and, you know, a lot, you know, a lot of fear that was going on post 911.

I worked on some amendments to the Stafford Act after, Katrina, after the hurricane in 2005, I think, I worked on the sonny, you know, Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission after the Great Recession in 2010. So, you know, there were a number of things and frankly, I worked on some legislation that came out of that as well. So those are some of the achievements I feel good about.

David Martin: That’s a lot of good government, it sounds like.

Jay Lerner: And like I said, that was what was motivating me. And I felt like it was not only good government, as you said, but also really serving the American people and trying to, you know, make improvements. It’s not always perfect, but it’s, you know, it’s a work in progress and we’re always trying to improve things. And I, I was fortunate to have opportunities to make those positive contributions.

David Martin: And I should mention before we go, you’ve actually contributed to a book coming out called Inspectors General Accountability and Action. Basically. What what it what your what are your your I think you said there were two chapters you were involved with. What’s your message?

Jay Lerner: Yeah, I you know, the message, one chapter is in the practitioner’s volume, which really looks at the history of the inspector general community back from the 1978 or even before the act was passed up to, present day. But seeing the development and the evolution of the IG community, was that chapter and the other chapter I co-wrote with Kathy Newcomer at the George at George Washington University.

It’s part of the Academy.

David Martin: Also a NAPA fellow.

Jay Lerner: Also in the epistle. Exactly. And, I co-wrote that chapter. It’s part of the academic volume, on the strategic environment in which IGS operates. It’s a very complex environment. And one thing that surprised me when I was inspector general was just the many constituencies that IG faces or has to deal with. It is, you know, dual hatted.

So it an IG reports both to Congress and to the head of the agency. But there are other many other constituencies that and stakeholders that IGS need to be aware of. And you know, that chapter looked at the strategic environment in which IGS operate.

David Martin: Well, I would love to take a look at that book when it comes out and see if I can get through it, or maybe even, you know, what would be better? I’d like to sit in the back of your classroom for a class, or for a class or two and see what.

Jay Lerner: You’re always welcome. You’re always welcome.

David Martin: All right, there we go. I could take a law school class. Something I’ve always thought about. All right. Jay Lerner, it was a pleasure having you on so much information, so much good stuff. And just thanks for shining a light on what Inspector General’s do. And, the important work they do and the good government that they provide.

So thank you for your work. And thanks for coming on the Good Government Show.

Jay Lerner: Thank you for your kind words and thank you for this program. I think it’s really important to highlight the, the work that good government does. So I appreciate that we do too.

David Martin: Thanks very much. Thank you.

Want to hear more about good government? Check out another show I host leading Iowa good Government in Iowa cities. I host the show with Brad Cavanaugh, mayor of Dubuque, Iowa, and the immediate past president of the Iowa League of Cities. Together, we talk to leaders in Iowa cities. We talk about what works and what good government looks like in Iowa.

Join us right here. We listening now that’s leading Iowa. Good government in Iowa. Cities.

I told you there was a lot of good government there. Good government. It starts with serving others. It’s doing the right thing. That’s an excellent definition of good government. Listening to people who spend a career in public service, you can’t help but be inspired by these people. They really dedicate themselves to making America better. That was Jay Lerner’s mission.

Whether it was working as an inspector general, helping to create the Department of Homeland Security, or working as a prosecuting attorney, I was inspired. I hope you were too. That’s our show. Thanks for listening. Please like us and share this with your friends or viewers right here where you’re listening, and check out our website. Good Government show.com for extras.

Help us keep telling stories of good government in action everywhere. Join us again for another episode right here. I’m Dave Martin and this is the Good Government show.

The Good Government show is a Valley Park production. Jim Ludlow, Dave Martin, that’s me and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our show is edited and produced by Jason Stershic. Please subscribe, then share and like us and review us. That’s the best way to make sure we’re able to keep telling these stories of our government working for all of us.

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**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.